Would you? Remember, God did order genocide in the Old Testament (if you take the OT literally, anyways), so this is not an academic point. If you had faced the Caanites, would you have killed them all, including babies, when God ordered the Israelites to do so? Personally, I wouldn't, but I'm interested in your opinion.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Would you commit genocide if God ordered you to?
- Thread starter Waiting for the Verdict
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If you mean solely if we were in the ancient Hebrew's position back in OT times, then yes, I would obey God's command.
If you are including present-day scenarios, then no, as I believe God would not give such a command today. (Meaning that if I received such a command, I would be inclined to believe it was the devil - or some other evil agent - trying to deceive me.)
I'm also curious as to your decision to disobey if you were in the OT times. Do you mean that you believe God was wrong to do so? Or do you mean that God was right, but you would willingly disobey anyway?
If you are including present-day scenarios, then no, as I believe God would not give such a command today. (Meaning that if I received such a command, I would be inclined to believe it was the devil - or some other evil agent - trying to deceive me.)
I'm also curious as to your decision to disobey if you were in the OT times. Do you mean that you believe God was wrong to do so? Or do you mean that God was right, but you would willingly disobey anyway?
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I don't take scriptures totally literally, so I don't believe God truly ordered genocide. I think that is what the Israelites believed he wanted, but I don't think it actually reflected reality. If He did order genocide, it would have to be wrong.XianJedi said:
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GraceInHim
† Need a lifeguard? Mine walks on water †
Depends - Satan comes in all forms - I believe Jesus said he would come on the clouds and eevry eye will see him
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Waiting for the Verdict said:
God by definition is always right. He's the standard by which we judge right from wrong. By what measuring stick are you judging God?
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Yep. If God ordered me to do it because "who can resist his will?
Did'nt he ask Abraham to kill his son? Yes. Regardless of wether God eventually stopped him from doing it later but he still ordered him to do it and Abraham was really going to do it.
Did'nt he ask Abraham to kill his son? Yes. Regardless of wether God eventually stopped him from doing it later but he still ordered him to do it and Abraham was really going to do it.
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California Tim
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Just out of curiosity, what would you tell God while defying His "order" ? Would you tell Him you have a better plan? Or would you simply tell Him you think He is overreacting - take a timeout and get back to you on the matter once He calms down?Waiting for the Verdict said:
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I'd tell Him to send me to hell, but that I couldn't kill a baby for the sins of its parents. To me personally, God has to conform to morality, not vice versa. I don't worship Him because He is omnipotentCalifornia Tim said:
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All I know is he did it alot in the OT, if you take the OT literally.Gods Revenger said:And how likely would it be that God would command anyone to kill someone else?What're the chances of that actually happening?
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California Tim
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You've just annotated your handicap with God. He does not conform to YOUR own definition of "morality". He is a diety to be worshipped on your own terms, not a Sovereign, Holy standard by which all truth and all morality may be measured and to whom all glory is given. It is your "own understanding" that is your god and not a higher power to whom you subject your will.Waiting for the Verdict said:
I think you should take this all in context. It is your position that God might ask and require some to carry out an act of unrighteousness. That is simply not the case. You do not know the motivations, justifications etc, therefore you call into question the validity of the order without full comprehension. You stand on shaky ground.
Furthermore, if God wanted to wipe out an entire race, He would not NEED our help to do it. Microbes (bacteria or viruses) do not have a conscience and would be sufficiently lethal to carry out any such task. Therefore, if you are asked by God to do anything, the question might be "why me?", but never "why that?". He chooses to give us the privilege of demonstrating our love and devotion to him in numerous ways. Sometimes they are controversial from a human perspective, sometimes difficult, but never have we been able to ascertain with our limited knowledge they are anything but righteous.
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So if God defines righteousness could he make murder alright? Rape alright? Pedophilia, perhaps? If God asked you to abuse a child, like he asked Abraham too, would you? Why is He the standard of all morality? Because He is infinetely good, because he is Omnipotent, Omniscent, what. . . I know the usual answer to this is that God could do those things but won't because He is incapable of change? But if He is incapable of change, can he still be omnipotent? Moreover, if you are a literalist (not you personally), then how do you explain God changing his mind with Abraham? Or being even willing to change his mind with Lot and Company?California Tim said:
Sorry if this sounds terse. Your post was the most thoughtful answer I've recieved.
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breezynosacek
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I would obey, after I made sure it was God speaking.
However, in the latter times, they will seek your life thinking that they are doing the will of God. Don't remember where that is.
However, in the latter times, they will seek your life thinking that they are doing the will of God. Don't remember where that is.
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California Tim
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What other source could there be? Even unbelievers owe their moral compasses (however feeble) to God - the source of all knowledge and the definition of right or wrong. Besides all that, consider the following verse:Waiting for the Verdict said:
"Woe to {the one} who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware
vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are
you doing?' Or the thing you are making {say,} 'He has no hands'? (Isa 45:9)
And then consider the cross-reference in Romans:vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are
you doing?' Or the thing you are making {say,} 'He has no hands'? (Isa 45:9)
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His
will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The
thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will
it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same
lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (Romans
9:19-21)
Your questions are not unnatural, but they are unspiritual and indicate a void in your understanding of that one key concept - that God is sovereign. Once you leap that hurdle, the rest is pretty easy to grasp.will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The
thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will
it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same
lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (Romans
9:19-21)
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elijah115 said:
Agreed. How often has the "God told me to" excuse been used in history vis-a-vis genocide.
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No, if I had a vision from God ordering me to commit genocide I would go to a shrink to make sure I don't have psychological problems before I went and killed a bunch of people.
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California Tim
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Not really. If one would refrain from speculation and deal with the question at hand -it PRESUMES that the order is coming from God Himself and that is not debated. The question might better read "If God asked you to do something you were uncomfortable with would you do it?"elijah115 said:
It does not matter the issue. The question probes into the very heart of man and his natural emnity with the things of the Spirit. By selecting the most obviously disgusting and revolting issue to ponder, the OP asked, would you obey God - even when he does not make sense to you? It's that simple and hardly a "pointless thread". This is not a debate over the justification of genocide, but of the willingness to follow God's lead, wherever that may go. I might agree that He is unlikely to give such an order, but IF He did, IF IT WAS INDISPUTABLY FROM HIM ....would you obey?
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