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I have answered that objection, it is local. It is because of temple prostitution. They will be misrepresenting God. So he says ladies for the Gospel's sake sit down and be quiet. you prove otherwise.Review post #92.
there are so many leaps of logic and assumptions made in your statementStaying on topic regarding female ordination and Catholicism, I think we need to stay on track.
It is understandable that Seventh Day Adventists feel obliged to advocate for female clergy and leadership in the Church. When St. Paul's writings are accepted at face value it negates the teaching of Ellen G. White;
SDA theology stands and falls on its accuracy in its interpretation of Scripture. EGW did not write any of the doctrines of the SDA church. Her role is in endorsing the doctrines. Because of her claim to prophetic authority, she locks into place the doctrines. if there is an error in the doctrines then you cannot change them without EGW losing her claim to prophetic authority. That is the big problem. That is why I am a Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist. I use the same tools as everyone else. I think their system is the best for interpretation and practice. The teaching needs some adjustment.which calls into question the entirety of SDA Theology.
There are different reasons for people Denying or accepting women's ordination. The problem with the churches listed above is that .....Let's keep it relevant to the original post please.
Were I to be in a position where the Confessional Lutheran Church ceased to exist, I would feel comfortable enough in the Catholic and Orthodox Church; of these two, the Catholic Church would be my first choice because of the familiar liturgies. Were either of these Churches to allow female ordinations, they would be stricken from my list.
Let's keep in mind that the Anglicans, Liberal Luterans, some Old Catholic Churches, some so called "independent" orthodox have already embraced female ordination; the most visible being Anglicans and Liberal Lutherans.
People are not exactly flocking to either of those Churches at the rates at which their attendance is declining. I don't think they would flock to the CC either, were this to become the case.
In their defense, while some churches have gone on their own and done so, the Seventh-day Adventist Church on the global level has not ordained female clergy.It is understandable that Seventh Day Adventists feel obliged to advocate for female clergy and leadership in the Church. When St. Paul's writings are accepted at face value it negates the teaching of Ellen G. White; which calls into question the entirety of SDA Theology.
Ellen white was not ordained.In their defense, while some churches have gone on their own and done so, the Seventh-day Adventist Church on the global level has not ordained female clergy.
1 Corinthians 11:5 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved (NKJV)
Prophesying is not the same as ordination. And even in a chapter dealing extensively with a sign of authority, the text references women prophesying.
Ellen white was not ordained.
Would you be more likely to join the Catholic Church,
if they had women priests, bishops, and cardinals?
that depends on their reason for doing it. as a social trend or Fad, NO. As an acknowledgment of the spiritual gifting, maybe, but there are other reasons for not joining.Would you be more likely to join the Catholic Church,
if they had women priests, bishops, and cardinals?
A bit of shock and awe to get the thread back on track.
Fun to watch the SDA damage control.
"In all the congregations of the saints (from Ephesus to Rome), women should remain silent in the churches." (1 Co 14:33)
This is talking about speaking in tounges.
there are so many leaps of logic and assumptions made in your statement
1. My acceptance of Women as pastors is not dependent on my view of Ellen G White. I do not accept Her as a prophet. So I do not defend her, her prophetic ministry is dependant on the accuracy of her prophecies, not her gender. Being a woman does not negate the Holy Spirit gifting women for ministry. As Acts 21:8,9 8Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. So that objection is not valid.
SDA theology stands and falls on its accuracy in its interpretation of Scripture. EGW did not write any of the doctrines of the SDA church. Her role is in endorsing the doctrines. Because of her claim to prophetic authority, she locks into place the doctrines. if there is an error in the doctrines then you cannot change them without EGW losing her claim to prophetic authority. That is the big problem. That is why I am a Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist. I use the same tools as everyone else. I think their system is the best for interpretation and practice. The teaching needs some adjustment.
There are different reasons for people Denying or accepting women's ordination. The problem with the churches listed above is that .....
1. They largely reject the authority of scripture, they are humanist and evolutionist, and they deny the creator, the created order, the Garden of Eden, the Fall, and the Curse. they base everything on equality and do not look at sin and circumstance.
2. A biblical view for women as pastors is based on being born again, the gift of the Holy Spirit, being a new creation, and the Law written on the Heart. Paul's statements on women being silent and not having authority are seen as local and circumstantial. We don't care if it is a man or a women as long as God speaks and get His way. Gender is irrelevant. Traditionalists either deny, ignore, or denigrate this view because it does not fit with their interpretation.
3. The Traditional view is that Paul's statements are universal and binding in all circumstances.
this issue in order.I am guessing she is taking the second clause of vs. 33 to apply to vs. 34. But it would be good if she clarified.
1 Corinthians 14:33-3533 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. (NKJV)
we have had many discussions on this. It is not as cut and dry as traditionalists want to make it. It takes very bad hermeneutics to arrive at that view. One has to ignore evidence that contradicts that to make it universal, one has to ignore the work of Christ in removing the curse and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to all people, unless you want to say the Holy Spirit is not given to women? How do we ignore that?I think it is a bit more nuanced.
The traditional view points to arguments that go beyond just cultural appeal, such as the argument of creation order, and who was deceived.
Both of those are long before Ephesus, and takes it out of merely local context. One is pre-fall, and one related to the fall.
Acts clearly shows that women were involved in prophesy, exercising gifts, etc. The question is were they able to fill specific roles.
There is also the question of the relation of the husband and wife in the home, to roles in the church, if any.
this issue in order.
one has to ignore the work of Christ in removing the curse and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to all people, unless you want to say the Holy Spirit is not given to women? How do we ignore that?
V. 34 is pretty plain.I am guessing she is taking the second clause of vs. 33 to apply to vs. 34. But it would be good if she clarified.
1 Corinthians 14:33-3533 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. (NKJV)
But you referenced vs. 33.V. 34 is pretty plain.
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