Would you be more likely to join…

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
3,671
2,219
24
WI
✟122,437.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Have you even bothered to ever look for and then ask God for a group or even for a person who always tells the truth and does not lie ?
I see that you are not into Catholicism, so I will leave this thread.
 
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
3,671
2,219
24
WI
✟122,437.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If you decide to leave what is wrong and seek what is right, you'll be back.
Jesus is right. Heck, I do not pray the rosary, as it takes forever and I have ADHD, so I pray directly to God instead.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,505
6,309
North Carolina
✟282,767.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well, I am in the middle on this one. Mary gave birth to Jesus, so I feel that women can be vessels for spreading the Good News also, but I will not debate on that.
Perhaps more Bible study would better inform you on these matters.
 
Upvote 0

DJWhalen

When God steps in, miracles happen.
Feb 13, 2024
282
180
54
Indianapolis
✟16,683.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Republican
John the Baptist baptized Jesus.

Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus.
Women have their place but it's not leading the Church. I have no problem if a woman want's to lead Bible study as long as she teaches the WHOLE Bible.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DJWhalen

When God steps in, miracles happen.
Feb 13, 2024
282
180
54
Indianapolis
✟16,683.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Republican
The Creator and Jesus Determined Jesus would be born a man in the world overrun with sinful men.

The Creator Did Not Show that a woman ought to teach men, whether the WHOLE Bible or not. It is His Word, Always Has Been, that they should not - it is part of His Directions, Directly.
I would not argue with that.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aaron112
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,446
5,827
49
The Wild West
✟489,568.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
The Creator and Jesus Determined Jesus would be born a man in the world overrun with sinful men.

Why are you saying “The Creator and Jesus”? You do realize that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity, the Only Begotten Son and Word of God, God Incarnate, coequal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, and indeed the Gospel according to John makes it clear that He is consubstantial with the Father (“I and the Father are one”) and that He is God, in the person of the Word incarnate, and by Him, all things were made (John 1: 1-17)?

Now it is true that it was part of the plan for our salvation that our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ would become incarnate as a man by being born into a world of sinful men by the Blessed Virgin Mary (Referring to the Theotokos as Blessed is scriptural, based on Luke 1:48, even if one does not believe in her perpetual virginity, although I feel obliged to note that was the belief not only of the ancient churches including the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East* and the Roman Catholic Church, but also of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jan Hus, Jerome of Prague and John Wesley, among others)

And it is the case that John the Baptist did Baptize our Lord; this is described in the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) and alluded to in Gospel according to John, and John additionally makes clear the special vocation of John the Baptist, who was also a cousin of our Lord, who lept in the womb while in the presence of the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos, when she visited the mother of John the Baptist while pregnant with our Lord while in the womb?

And it is also the case that Mary of Bethany and perhaps one other woman did indeed anoint him with nard, an expensive perfume in an alabaster vessel, and wash his feet in it, drying them with her hair, the event being among those recorded in all four Gospels (Matthew 26:6-13, Mark 14:3-9, Luke 7:36-50 and John 12:1-8).

The Creator Did Not Show that a woman ought to teach men, whether the WHOLE Bible or not. It is His Word, Always Has Been, that they should not - it is part of His Directions, Directly.

It is true that the Holy Apostle Paul says that, and any church that does ordain women does naturally have to address that; and to do so without saying that the Holy Apostle Paul was wrong, or that His epistles are not applicable to the present situation.**

And it is the case that we lack any compelling historical evidence of women being ordained to a rank higher than that of Deaconess until the 18th or 19th century.

Most importantly, in the case of the Roman Catholic Church and any other church that does not ordain women for doctrinal reasons (for instance, because of what the Holy Apostle Paul wrote) because any benefit that could possibly result from ordaining women would be greatly overshadowed by the damage that would be caused by the massive schism such an inevitably controversial departure from established doctrine would precipitate.

*Some jurisdictions of these churches have the descendants of Jewish Christians: the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchates of Antioch and Jerusalem, the Assyrian Church of the East, and on the Oriental Orthodox side, the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and especially the Syriac Orthodox churches in India, which have many members descended from Kochin Jews who embraced Christ, and some who are endogamous descendants of Jews who survived a shipwreck while en route to Kerala and embraced Christ in thanksgiving for their Salvation, and to an even greater extent the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Churches, most of whose members are descended from the Abyssinian population that practiced Judaism (and indeed the Beta Israel, the Jews from Ethiopia, are still around, and their liturgy is interesting in that it is identical to the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox liturgies except that animal sacrifices take place instead of the celebration of the Eucharist; after the martyrdom of the Christian Emperor Haile Selassie by the Communist Derg regime which had seized power, the Derg, like many Communist regimes, engaged in anti-Semitism so it had a group to blame for its own incompetence, and thus most of the Beta Israel were evacuated to Israel, but a small number remain in Ethiopia.

** For example, the nation of Georgia was evangelized in the early fourth century by an Armenian princess by the name of Nino; now they did not have female presbyters or bishops, and Nino herself was clearly not ordained to such an office, since after being converted by her the King sent to Constantinople requesting they send bishops and presbyters, however, it would have been impossible for her to have converted the Georgian people including the King without teaching men and being in a position of authority.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

jas3

Active Member
Jan 21, 2023
245
140
Southeast
✟26,442.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Would you be more likely to join the Catholic Church,
if they had women priests, bishops, and cardinals?
No. On the contrary, it would completely falsify Catholicism.
 
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,333
19,109
44
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,515,962.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Would you be more likely to join the Catholic Church,
if they had women priests, bishops, and cardinals?
More likely, in that it would remove one barrier. But other significant barriers would remain, particularly those to do with authority and infallibility. On its own it would not be enough to make the Catholic Church an option for me.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,446
5,827
49
The Wild West
✟489,568.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
More likely, in that it would remove one barrier. But other significant barriers would remain, particularly those to do with authority and infallibility. On its own it would not be enough to make the Catholic Church an option for me.

I myself would likely have joined the Roman Catholic Church had Pope Benedict XVI remained the Pope, because i was attracted by the idea of being able to serve both the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin Mass in any parish I might be assigned to thanks to summorum pontificum, and there was a seminary near where I lived where I could have perhaps obtained a doctorate, and considering how bad the seminary I went to has become, I would not have objected to redoing my MDiv at the time (I would now, because of my age and poor health, so my current position is really that my MDiv is a worthless scrap of paper since most of the churches I would want to serve in regard it as a joke, including those which ordain women; I made a huge mistake in remaining with my alma mater for my MDiv as a matter of blind trust rather than looking into other seminaries as there are a large number I would have been happier with), and also most appealing was the prospect of multi-ritual faculties, of being able to qualify in the Byzantine Rite, the West Syriac Rite and the Roman Rite, for example.

It was a pleasant enough prospect that I was prepared to set aside my doctrinal objections to the idea of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility and Purgatory (partially on the grounds that Eastern Catholic churches don’t really teach Purgatory, and also Pope Benedict XVI had explained Purgatory in a manner that was closer to Patristic eschatology, but I later learned his understanding of it is not as widespread as one would prefer), and also based on the apparent autonomy of the Eastern Catholic Churches; it at the time seemed like these churches probably were not subject to Papal Supremacy, and indeed this point actually remains somewhat untested, but my suspicion is if the leader of an Eastern Catholic church criticized Pope Francis enough, he would be deposed, and the only Eastern Catholic church that has been outspoken in opposition to Fiducia Supplicans is the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church*, which for obvious reasons of public relations, Pope Francis does not dare interfere with.

However, Pope Francis becoming Pope after the shock resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, the motives for which I still fail to understand, set off red flags as soon as I heard Pope Francis had made comments attacking the UK over the issue of the Falklands, which Argentina at the time was threatening once more (perhaps because of the discovery of a large potential oil deposit in the Falklands, which is unlikely to be exploited while they remain a British territory, but despite the contraction of the UK military, the Argentine military had contracted even more, so really there was not an actual threat, but the mere idea of a repeat of the terrible violence in 1982 deeply upset me, and it upset me that the new Pope had made remarks to the extent that the islands were rightfully Argentine territory, although in fairness he did not advocate any form of violence. His election also immediately followed the referendum on the status of the Falkland Islands in which nearly all of the Kelpers (the demonym for residents of the Falklands) voted to remain a British overseas territory. And then a few months later when I found out that someone in the vatican had, immediately following the election of Pope Francis, ordered an investigation of a traditionalist Franciscan province in Italy based on the accusation that did not pertain to abuses of pastoral care, but which included a directive preventing the friars and nuns in question from being visited by their families, I was absolutely outraged by such a cruel act, and what brought this to my attention was a story where Pope Francis was asked by a relative when they would be able to see their loved one and all he said was “Soon” in what was described as a reassuring voice, but that struck me as a totally inadequate response to a situation that represented a violation of all that I believe in in terms of pastoral care.

Forcibly cloistering a religious order and denying them access to their relatives is something I would oppose regardless of the accusation on the basis of innocent until proven guilty, particularly considering that the only way members could have visited their relatives would be to violate their sacred vows, and so it to me represented a violation of the commitment that monks and friars make to the Roman Catholic Church when they profess solemn vows, because as I see it, any church with monastics is obliged to ensure the wellbeing of those who have professed solemn vows, which obviously precludes cutting them off from their families and effectively imprisoning them, particularly in the case of friars, who are normally not cloistered (only Franciscan nuns have actual monasteries, or convents as they are called in the West, able to provide comfortable long term accommodation without a need to leave the convent, although Franciscan nuns are usually not cloistered like Benedictine monks and nuns; the friars on the other hand have very basic housing owing to the Franciscan vow of poverty, and effectively both groups were imprisoned, and denied visits from their relatives, which in actual prisons is a punishment applied only to prisoners who have grossly misbehaved.

And thus as I saw it this whole affair represented a gross violation by the Vatican of its responsibilities to care for its professed religious, creating a situation worse than prison where the only way out would be to violate solemn vows, which most Catholics friars and monastics regard as a terrible sin (and indeed the fact that Luther violated his Augustinian vows, especially when later in his life he married a nun* is used by Catholics when criticizing Lutheranism. And given the image Pope Francis was cultivating in the media for being compassionate and loving and merciful, the fact that he did not immediately end this scenario, and indeed that it had begun on his watch, made me realize that there was no way I could even consider joining the Roman Catholic Church until reforms were made to ensure that such abuses could not happen to members of religious orders, and also at any time during the Papacy of Francis, and I also realized that the rationalizations I was applying to their doctrine were untenable.
 
Upvote 0

Love365

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2020
1,548
156
Kentucky
✟98,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I'm a complimentarian, so that would make me less likely to join them.
A male priest can celebrate Mass on Sunday,
and represent Jesus.

A woman priest can celebrate Mass on Saturday,
and represent the Holy Spirit.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

concretecamper

I stand with Candice.
Nov 23, 2013
6,835
2,593
PA
✟277,782.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A male priest can celebrate Mass on Sunday,
and represent Jesus.

A woman priest can celebrate Mass on Saturday,
and represent the Holy Spirit.
Did the Holy Spirit offer HIMSELF to the Father? Your idea displays lack of understanding. Maybe that is why you always bring this matter up.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums