would this bother you?

[katelyn]

I've been going through Natalie's medical records in my efforts to become a more informed mommy when it comes to medical decisions. When I came across the hospital charges from her birth, there were charges for a vitamin K shot and erythromycin eye drops. But if these were done, they were not done with anyone telling us, and not done in our presence.

Natalie was only apart from us two times, the first for about half an hour. A nurse took her to the nursery shortly after her bath saying that they would just do the routine newborn hearing test and then bring her back after half an hour so that we could rest. Given the fact that we'd been up over 24 hours and I'd just given birth, rest sounded good, so we agreed. She may have been in there longer than half an hour, but not much, because I started wondering when she was coming back and sent my DH to go get her.

The only other time she was out of my presence was maybe 10 minutes in the middle of the night, when a nurse came to get her to take her to get weighed. If I had been thinking of it, I would have gone with, but I was kinda out of it.

Anyway, we had been informed at an earlier midwife appointment that vitamin K and erythromycin were "routine" procedures, and we didn't put anything in our birth plan either way about them, but I still didn't expect them to just be done without our knowledge. I am rather irritated about it, although there is nothing I can do about it now, of course, except for be adamant this time around that the baby not be removed from her parents' presence.

I guess this is a rant more than anything else...

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Yes, that would bother me greatly.

 

[Linnis]

This would bother me a lot which is why we hope our son won't be alone at any time with hospital staff. Birth plan or not I'm told it's not often listened to and they do things without asking permission.

After being my support DH's job is to become that baby's large overprotective shadow.

 

[jgonz]

Yes, that would bother me a lot, but the nursing staff of every hospital I've ever been in always do the Vit.K shot & the eye gunk without telling the parents. It's so routine they don't even bother "informing" the parents.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Yes, that would bother me a lot, but the nursing staff of every hospital I've ever been in always do the Vit.K shot & the eye gunk without telling the parents. It's so routine they don't even bother "informing" the parents.

In the UK, they ask whether you want the Vitamin K orally, IM, or not at all. There is no way that they would just give it.

We don't have the eye gunk, and I made a very strong point about declining it when I had a baby in the US.

 

[katelyn]

See, if anyone had asked I probably would have said no on the vitamin K shot, and plan to say no this time. I see no reason for a baby who is not going to be getting a circumcision soon after birth to get a routine vit. K shot. I'm not sure about the eye drops; I plan on talking to our ped about it at Natalie's 18 month appointment. I also don't want the baby to get a Hep B shot at the hospital; Natalie didn't, but I'm not sure if they do things differently now.

 

[Linnis]

Or you could have been charged for things you didn't even use or the baby didn't get. I know when I was hospitalized for 2 days. They changed me for 3 cathader urine sample kits, at $71 each. I refused them and peed in a cup but they still charged me.

I hear if you refuse the eye drops you have to sign a waiver.

 

[katelyn]

Or you could have been charged for things you didn't even use or the baby didn't get. I know when I was hospitalized for 2 days. They changed me for 3 cathader urine sample kits, at $71 each. I refused them and peed in a cup but they still charged me.

Yeah, this has been a concern of mine too. I want to tell them this time around that I don't want their baby "gift" pack either, because they charge you like $100 mostly for samples...a small pack of diapers, baby soap, lotion, a comb and brush, etc.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

When I had my US baby, the cost of the birth was a package deal. I think it was around $2000 to the hospital, and $2000 to the midwife (which included all the antenatal care). In the hospital, I used very few of their resources - no gown, no exams (so no gloves), no IV. Basically, I had the room and the sheets, breakfast, and the nurse's time.

 

[jazzbird]

Yep, that would bother me, but they are both such routine procedures that if nothing was said in your birth plan, they probably didn't think twice about giving them to Natalie, even though they should have had your consent. They gave Jonas the eye ointment and our birth plan even stated that we didn't want it. I think the nurses just get on a role with their routine that these things happen. If we ever end up birthing in the hospital again, I will make sure I remind them that we don't want that stuff as they take the baby.

 

[RoseofLima]

LOL! I do not let them take my baby-ever...I would get up and bleed down the hallway after her if they did...

Don't fret too much- you can't change anything that is in the past. Try to see it as a blessing- so that you can now be more pro-active with the greater knowledge you now have!

 

[nursejess]

It wouldn't bother me, because I don't think they ever do ask about that. I figure it's pretty important stuff anyways. The eye ointment so they don't get any eye infections from being birthed, the vitamin k because a baby's blood doesn't have enough at birth and their blood won't clot well without it.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Consent is not required for this (at least not in Australia, and I'm almost positive it's the same thing in America/Canada). They are looking at changing this to a 'consentable issue' in Australia, but not sure about other places.

FWIW, I think these drops and the injection/heel prick are fantastic ideas. Seeing how long it takes the baby to absorb Vit K and prevent eye infections themselves (and how bad it can get without either treatment), I have no hesitation in allowing this.

I'd rather the drops/injection than the alternatives...

It probably happens in the anesthesia room (during a c-section), or during the APGAR/hip flexation tests immediately post birth - hence most people not being aware of it.

Can't understand why this is such an issue, considering what the alternative is without such treatment?

Sasch

 

[Naomi4Christ]

The issue with the eye ointment is that is used to avoid transmission of gonnorhaea and chlamydia, which most women do not have.

 

[belladonic-haze]

I've been going through Natalie's medical records in my efforts to become a more informed mommy when it comes to medical decisions. When I came across the hospital charges from her birth, there were charges for a vitamin K shot and erythromycin eye drops. But if these were done, they were not done with anyone telling us, and not done in our presence.

Natalie was only apart from us two times, the first for about half an hour. A nurse took her to the nursery shortly after her bath saying that they would just do the routine newborn hearing test and then bring her back after half an hour so that we could rest. Given the fact that we'd been up over 24 hours and I'd just given birth, rest sounded good, so we agreed. She may have been in there longer than half an hour, but not much, because I started wondering when she was coming back and sent my DH to go get her.

The only other time she was out of my presence was maybe 10 minutes in the middle of the night, when a nurse came to get her to take her to get weighed. If I had been thinking of it, I would have gone with, but I was kinda out of it.

Anyway, we had been informed at an earlier midwife appointment that vitamin K and erythromycin were "routine" procedures, and we didn't put anything in our birth plan either way about them, but I still didn't expect them to just be done without our knowledge. I am rather irritated about it, although there is nothing I can do about it now, of course, except for be adamant this time around that the baby not be removed from her parents' presence.

I guess this is a rant more than anything else...

Routine or not, you should have at least been informed and explained to what and why. Simple! And as a mother you have every right to rant about this....so, just keep on doing that......Not bottle it up inside!

 

[katelyn]

Consent is not required for this (at least not in Australia, and I'm almost positive it's the same thing in America/Canada). They are looking at changing this to a 'consentable issue' in Australia, but not sure about other places.

That is my main problem, that I feel that patients should be informed about *any* treatment they are being subjected to, and in the case of children, the parents should be informed.

FWIW, I think these drops and the injection/heel prick are fantastic ideas. Seeing how long it takes the baby to absorb Vit K and prevent eye infections themselves (and how bad it can get without either treatment), I have no hesitation in allowing this.

I'd rather the drops/injection than the alternatives...

I don't consider the treatments bad. I think preventative medicine is great - if you have a reason to think that something has a fair chance of needing to be prevented. For example, if a newborn was going to possibly have surgery in the first few days of life, then yes, vitamin K is a great idea. And if for any reason it was suspected that I could be infected with something that could give my child an eye infection, then yes, the eye drops are a great idea. But why treat all children when it's unnecessary?

It probably happens in the anesthesia room (during a c-section), or during the APGAR/hip flexation tests immediately post birth - hence most people not being aware of it.

Well, I didn't have a C-section, and my husband observed the APGAR tests being done, in addition to them being done not far from my bed, so I don't think it was done during that time. I would also like to think that my midwife didn't have anything to do with the lack of informed consent, and she was present at that time...but I suppose it is still possible.

Can't understand why this is such an issue, considering what the alternative is without such treatment?

Again, the main issue for me is not the specific treatments, but that patients should have a right to informed consent about any treatment. Especially in these days when the medical community wants protection from liability should something go wrong (not necessarily doctors and nurses specifically, but also hospitals and drug companies), I think it's essential for patients to try to be informed as possible so they know what they are getting into, rather than being unknowingly forced into medical treatment, then being told no one else is to blame if something goes wrong. If no one else is to blame, then it's ultimately my responsibility to be informed and make decisions about my medical treatment.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

As with anything, there is a Benefit, Risk, Alternative, and the option of doing Nothing (BRAN). The parents should be given enough information to evaluate any test or treatment with this in mind, and then make the choice for themselves.

These routine procedures are things that can be anticipated well in advance of the birth, and you can make up your mind about them without panic or emotion.

 

[Cright]

I was told in my hospital orientation that they do not need our concent to give eye ointment (to prevent a mom's std's from going to baby) or Vitiman K (for blood cloting issues). You do, however, need to sign a waiver to NOT have them. I have already signed mine in advanced and have given it to the hospital so that if I forget when I'm in there... they already have it! I will have a copy with me as well, just incase. It's going to be packed in my bag!

I'd be irritated had I not known in advance!

 

[tas25]

It's not just std's but there are a lot of bacteria in the vaginal tract that can potentially cause damage to a newborns eye's.....and since it is done for the welfare of the child, it's o.k to worried about not being to told...but irregardless, this is really for the babies benefit...but just keep in mind nurses go from room to room delivering all day....

 

[LJSGM]

I've been going through Natalie's medical records in my efforts to become a more informed mommy when it comes to medical decisions. When I came across the hospital charges from her birth, there were charges for a vitamin K shot and erythromycin eye drops. But if these were done, they were not done with anyone telling us, and not done in our presence.

Natalie was only apart from us two times, the first for about half an hour. A nurse took her to the nursery shortly after her bath saying that they would just do the routine newborn hearing test and then bring her back after half an hour so that we could rest. Given the fact that we'd been up over 24 hours and I'd just given birth, rest sounded good, so we agreed. She may have been in there longer than half an hour, but not much, because I started wondering when she was coming back and sent my DH to go get her.

The only other time she was out of my presence was maybe 10 minutes in the middle of the night, when a nurse came to get her to take her to get weighed. If I had been thinking of it, I would have gone with, but I was kinda out of it.

Anyway, we had been informed at an earlier midwife appointment that vitamin K and erythromycin were "routine" procedures, and we didn't put anything in our birth plan either way about them, but I still didn't expect them to just be done without our knowledge. I am rather irritated about it, although there is nothing I can do about it now, of course, except for be adamant this time around that the baby not be removed from her parents' presence.

I guess this is a rant more than anything else...

I think in America, you have to sign a medical release form for the doctor to give you medical treatment. I think it means that they can do what they think nessisary for the health of you and the baby without going into specifics every single time they do something. But you can ask. They probably have a list or something that you can ask for to see everything that they do. As for the eye drops, do you know what they are for? These eye drops have stopped the major cause of blindness in America. If you could have paid $40 or whatever to stop your child from going blind, would you have? The procedures are basic, there are no known adverse side affects to these two things that you are complaining about and are all the benefit for your child, the state even sees it as neglect if you refuse these things for your child based on cost, as it is with vaccinations as well.