Would lying be considered a sin?

evolisamyth · Apr 24, 2004

DrBob said:
In essence you are saying (take this in the hypothetical as I have no desire to offend you, only to discuss, learn and grow! ) that your selfish need to feel honest would be more important than the safety of another person. I would think that the greater sin would be the unwillingness to do something we feel makes us less pure and holy at the expense of another. If Christ had lived that way he would not have died for us

Your point that honesty leaves options is true however. When my kids answer the phone and I do not want to be bothered I asked them not lie by saying he is not home but rather they would be asked to say that dad is not wanting to take phone calls just now. On the other hand, when the kids were left alone I instructed them never to tell callers that there was not a grown up in the house even if they had to lie, because it was for their own safety. Just telling folks that my dad is unavailable is a lie, a dissimulation of the truth ... just as not answering the question would be a lie by omission. However, I am happy to say that my kids have grown up to be honest good people!

God looks to the motives in our hearts and not just the things we do that make us feel more righteous ... We might feel all proud of ourselves for following a code of rules or ethics carefully yet totally be missing the mark with God because our rigid code locked us into taking care of ourselves more than others.

Doc

OK Doc. I don't what to argue either. But where did you get the idea that I had a selfish need to feel honest?!?! If I went with my "selfish needs" I'd LIE and say she wasn't there.

And WHERE is my "unwilliingness to do something"? I think that if you re-read what I posted that I DO have HER safety in mind and am prepared to do what it takes to ensure it. Where do you get the idea that my telling the truth as to her location at the time means I've in any way handed her back to a husband who is obvously dangerous to her?!?!

C'mon, your response came across and LOOKING for an argument. Don't put words in my mouth or make statements as to my motives when you even said that God looks at the motives of our hearts. Let Him be the judge of what He can see and don't be so rapid at making them about what you can't see.

Would really appreciate it, thanks.

Oh, BTW. Your kids telling someone that you are "unavailabe" rather than you are not home is not a lie. It's the truth. Really, if you are not there, you are unavailable. By teaching them to say that rather than "Dad's not home right now.", you've done the wise thing AND didn't tell them to lie.

Evo

DrBob · Apr 24, 2004

I'm sorry if I offended you. I am not saying you personally are or are not selfish. I was making a point that we can sometimes put our personal spirtual ambitions and our personal sense of accomplishments in the realm of holiness above other things that are a
higher priority for God. I have met Christians so worried about themselves and their spiritual progress and following principles that there is no time or energy or effort to worry about others. Jesus made this point himself with the story about those who pray in his name and fast and all but never visited him when he was sick or fed him when he was hungry. It is the story of the good samaritain who in contrast to the others set aside his personal agenda and took care of someone in need without worrying whether the person in need believed like him or not. I worry for myself in this area too and am probably quite selfish yet in God's eyes ... I strive to balance ... yet in the end will be like Oscar Schindler in the end crying because we could have sold our watch and saved 2 more ... will we wish we had spent our time and energy differently? our money? used our talents better? or will we lok at all our efforts to be holy and righteous and expect to get some kind of reward for something that Christ did for us already on the cross?

Doc

ricko · Apr 25, 2004

If lying is a sin, as some have mentioned, then how come Eve said that God said that she could not touch the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, Good and Evil, when clearly God only told Adam and Eve that they were not to eat of it. This was before they partook of the fruit! Were they in a state of sin before eating the fruit? I am confused!

ricko · Apr 25, 2004

If lying is a sin, then how come....?

evolisamyth · Apr 25, 2004

ricko said:
If lying is a sin, as some have mentioned, then how come Eve said that God said that she could not touch the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, Good and Evil, when clearly God only told Adam and Eve that they were not to eat of it. This was before they partook of the fruit! Were they in a state of sin before eating the fruit? I am confused!

I don't think Eve said what she said with the intent to deceive. It looks more like she misspoke or more likely misunderstood what God had commanded them. She's only human after all. How often do we correctly quote EVERYTHING we are told? Have any of us NEVER misunderstood an order which we were given? I think no. If Eve had actually lied, I believe that Genesis 3 would read much differently.

Evo

evolisamyth · Apr 25, 2004

PS: This would be a good time to point out something Doc has been saying.

God IS able to see the intents of our hearts. It's very clear that based on what happened in Genesis 3 that God saw no deceit intended in what Eve had said about the tree.

In Mark 2 Jesus raises up a palsied man. There were certain men sitting there. Here's what happened:
Mark 2:6-10
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he siad unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hears?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up they bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth, to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up they bed, and go they way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

This shows us that God knows what's in our hearts.
Proverbs 21:2 Every way of man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth (literally translated weighs) the hearts.

Evo

Blessed75 · Apr 25, 2004

mesue said:
Rahab lied and God blessed her. I think it is our heart attitude and motive that God is most interested in.
Joshua 2:4

I about fell over in my chair when I read this - I agree with you! THANK YOU for posting this. This is EXACTLY how I feel.

cat has felt the light! · Apr 26, 2004

thanx muzik dude
I know he guides you well to!
byee xx
C@ x

Would lying be considered a sin?

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