Would lying be considered a sin?

evolisamyth · Apr 19, 2004

Blessed75 said:
that's why i said it depends on the situation -

if a wife beater were to come to my door looking for his wife that I was hiding, do you think i'm gonna tell him the truth that she's hiding out at my house? no way - i'd be lying my rear end off.........

depends on the situation - it's not a black or white issue - there are shades of gray here......but that's just my opinion.

I think that there is no grey area even in this situation.
I believe that one can still be truthful in this matter. I'd tell him the truth, "Yes, your wife is hiding in my house...from you (it that is the case)."
If he tries to force his way in, I'd have to take the appropriate action to protect my self, home, his wife, and yes...even him from possible reprocusions of his decision. Bottom line is, there are still options of word and action open to me when I tell him the truth. If I lie about the situation, I've already compromised.
Think of this as well: If he finds that I had lied about his wife hiding, how much more anger would he direct toward his wife? Regardless of wether or not his anger SHOULD be directed towards me. Bottom line: He was deceived. His wife was involved in some way with that deceit. Potential now exists for even more escalation of an already dangerous situation. Sure, telling the truth may lead to the same thing. However, it also give me the oportunity to difuse the situation. Sending him away frustrated and angry does not.
Tell the truth and trust the Lord to get you through it rather than disobey Him and hope he does. If you lie, you are depending on yourself. He wants you to depend on Him and do the right thing.
Love,
Evo

DrBob · Apr 19, 2004

evolisamyth said:
I think that there is no grey area even in this situation.
I believe that one can still be truthful in this matter. I'd tell him the truth, "Yes, your wife is hiding in my house...from you (it that is the case)."
If he tries to force his way in, I'd have to take the appropriate action to protect my self, home, his wife, and yes...even him from possible reprocusions of his decision. Bottom line is, there are still options of word and action open to me when I tell him the truth. If I lie about the situation, I've already compromised.
Think of this as well: If he finds that I had lied about his wife hiding, how much more anger would he direct toward his wife? Regardless of wether or not his anger SHOULD be directed towards me. Bottom line: He was deceived. His wife was involved in some way with that deceit. Potential now exists for even more escalation of an already dangerous situation. Sure, telling the truth may lead to the same thing. However, it also give me the oportunity to difuse the situation. Sending him away frustrated and angry does not.
Tell the truth and trust the Lord to get you through it rather than disobey Him and hope he does. If you lie, you are depending on yourself. He wants you to depend on Him and do the right thing.
Love,
Evo

In essence you are saying (take this in the hypothetical as I have no desire to offend you, only to discuss, learn and grow! ) that your selfish need to feel honest would be more important than the safety of another person. I would think that the greater sin would be the unwillingness to do something we feel makes us less pure and holy at the expense of another. If Christ had lived that way he would not have died for us

Your point that honesty leaves options is true however. When my kids answer the phone and I do not want to be bothered I asked them not lie by saying he is not home but rather they would be asked to say that dad is not wanting to take phone calls just now. On the other hand, when the kids were left alone I instructed them never to tell callers that there was not a grown up in the house even if they had to lie, because it was for their own safety. Just telling folks that my dad is unavailable is a lie, a dissimulation of the truth ... just as not answering the question would be a lie by omission. However, I am happy to say that my kids have grown up to be honest good people!

God looks to the motives in our hearts and not just the things we do that make us feel more righteous ... We might feel all proud of ourselves for following a code of rules or ethics carefully yet totally be missing the mark with God because our rigid code locked us into taking care of ourselves more than others.

Doc

Blessed75 · Apr 19, 2004

evolisamyth said:
I think that there is no grey area even in this situation.
I believe that one can still be truthful in this matter. I'd tell him the truth, "Yes, your wife is hiding in my house...from you (it that is the case)."
If he tries to force his way in, I'd have to take the appropriate action to protect my self, home, his wife, and yes...even him from possible reprocusions of his decision. Bottom line is, there are still options of word and action open to me when I tell him the truth. If I lie about the situation, I've already compromised.
Think of this as well: If he finds that I had lied about his wife hiding, how much more anger would he direct toward his wife? Regardless of wether or not his anger SHOULD be directed towards me. Bottom line: He was deceived. His wife was involved in some way with that deceit. Potential now exists for even more escalation of an already dangerous situation. Sure, telling the truth may lead to the same thing. However, it also give me the oportunity to difuse the situation. Sending him away frustrated and angry does not.
Tell the truth and trust the Lord to get you through it rather than disobey Him and hope he does. If you lie, you are depending on yourself. He wants you to depend on Him and do the right thing.
Love,
Evo

Okay, well I personally think that's a fantasy that you just explained and in a perfect world, well, maybe. BUT um, this is reality and unless you've been in that situation, you really can't say. You do what God commands of you, and I'll do what He commands of me and lets just say we agree to disagree.

humblegyrl · Apr 19, 2004

Proverbs 6:16-19 says, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Revelation 21:7-8 says, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

DrBob · Apr 19, 2004

that kind of rigidity may make you ~feel~ closer to God but in the end we are all doomed to the fire would it not be for Christ dying for us on the Cross and resurrected to be the name above all names and the Lord of all things.

I WILL put aside my own personal feelings and would lie if it meant saving the life of a person. Even if you are right and I'm going to the eternal fire, I'd still save the person. Because that is the love that God has put in my heart, and I am not afraid to get my feet dirty ... Christ washes them for us ya know! He's amazing ...

in love of Christ,

Doc

Blessed75 · Apr 19, 2004

humblegyrl said:
Proverbs 6:16-19 says, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Revelation 21:7-8 says, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

And your point? Um, I know the bible backwards and forwards and I can tell you that I let the Holy Spirit be my guide - The Holy Spirit interprets the Bible for me - now if you want to take things so literally then hon - be my guest. But, I'll go with what I feel God is telling me what to do in whatever situation I'm in. Thanks though for trying to "help" me out there.

Joesmith78 · Apr 19, 2004

No, this is not open to a gray area of literal or symbolic interpretation. God's word is clear on this matter:

Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practicesand have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Colossians 3:9-10 (ESV)

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16 (KJV)

You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another.Leviticus 19:11 (ESV)

In Leviticus 19:11, Strong's defines "lie" - Hebrew word, shaqar (H8266) - as, "to do or deal falsely, be false, trick, cheat."

Notice, God does not command, "You shall not lie to one another - except in certain cases:"

This is a black and white issue. We are commanded to not lie - period. Now, you can go down the relativist's road all day long and argue about the objectivity of the text - "it's all up to interpretation" - but the reality is this: if you're not willing to accept absolute objectivity and truth in this text, then you're unwilling to accept anything as absolute.

This passage demand a literal interpretation - there is nothing symbolic even remotely close. If you're not willing to give that, then you're resorting to the "whatever feels right" method, which is unbiblical. Remember: apart from God, nothing is right.

Let what you say be simply Yes or No; anything more than this comes from evil. Matthew 5:25 (ESV)

Havoc · Apr 19, 2004

Does that include not telling lies about other religions?

I've heard Christians tell more lies about Pagans and Wiccans than I ever heard about hiding victims about Wife Beatings. The False Witness told about Muslims alone on this board would surely cause your God to weep.

Or is it ok if you're just passing on what some other Christian told you, even if you don't take the effort to verify the story before spreading it further?

DrBob · Apr 19, 2004

Good point Havoc ... the more I learn the more I realize I was wrong about alot of things ...

mariusx1 · Apr 20, 2004

Blessed75 said:
And your point? Um, I know the bible backwards and forwards and I can tell you that I let the Holy Spirit be my guide - The Holy Spirit interprets the Bible for me - now if you want to take things so literally then hon - be my guest. But, I'll go with what I feel God is telling me what to do in whatever situation I'm in.

So do you think that sometime's God leads you to tell a lie?

I agree with joesmith and others in saying that there is no gray area in this (or any other) sin. What sort of faith are we having in God if we lie to protect ourselves or others? At that point, we are trying to play God and control our own destiny.

Mϋzikdϋde · Apr 20, 2004

LightBearer said:
Proverbs 6:16-19

There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

Maybe we should start by defining a false tongue. I think, as Blessed and Krystina and Dr. Bob have said, it depends on intent. If you depart from the truth for personal gain or to harm another then you are sinning but if you deceive and enemy in the protection of one's life then I don't think that could hardly be called a sin.
In this case the word false is from the Hebrew word twot which is understood to mean to exert one's self in vain Synonyms: laxness, slackness, slackening, treachery. I guess we should ask ourselves if what we have done falls under this definition.
As Blessed said, She let's the Holy Spirit guide her while reading scripture. Likewise, if you let the Holy Spirit guide you in life He will convict your heart even before you sin. So this question (for Christians) should be moot.

Blessed75 · Apr 20, 2004

mariusx1 said:
So do you think that sometime's God leads you to tell a lie?

I agree with joesmith and others in saying that there is no gray area in this (or any other) sin. What sort of faith are we having in God if we lie to protect ourselves or others? At that point, we are trying to play God and control our own destiny.

Do I think God leads me to tell a lie? Um, that's none of your business.

I think that's peaches 'n cream that you agree with Joesmith - I don't.

Do not ever question my faith as that is against the rules but b/c you're new, I'll just let you know instead of reporting it.

And once again, thanks so much for your OPINIONS. We are all entitled to them, you spoke yours and I spoke mine.

Blessed75 · Apr 20, 2004

muzikdude said:
As Blessed said, She let's the Holy Spirit guide her while reading scripture. Likewise, if you let the Holy Spirit guide you in life He will convict your heart even before you sin. So this question (for Christians) should be moot.

THANK YOU BIG BRO!

Miss Shelby · Apr 20, 2004

Didn't Rahab lie in the book of Joshua in order save his and his clan's rearend?

Michelle

Blessed75 · Apr 20, 2004

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to muzikdude again.

Miss Shelby · Apr 20, 2004

evolisamyth said:
I think that there is no grey area even in this situation.

How bout this one. A group of gang bangers come to a hosptial looking for the victim of a gunshot wound, possibly to finish him off in his hospital bed. (It has been known to happen on more than one occasion)--I, being the person who greets them upon arrival, tell them we have no such patient after they have to retrieve a copy of a newspaper article from their baggy pants pockets to even tell me his name?

I lied straight through my teeth, said we did not have the boy, and that lie could possibly have kept the boy alive. Was it a sin? I don't care if it was, I sleep better for it.

Michelle

Blessed75 · Apr 20, 2004

I LOVE YA WOMAN! Thanks Michelle - you RAWK!

Mϋzikdϋde · Apr 20, 2004

Miss Shelby said:
How bout this one. A group of gang bangers come to a hosptial looking for the victim of a gunshot wound, possibly to finish him off in his hospital bed. (It has been known to happen on more than one occasion)--I, being the person who greets them upon arrival, tell them we have no such patient after they have to retrieve a copy of a newspaper article from their baggy pants pockets to even tell me his name?

I lied straight through my teeth, said we did not have the boy, and that lie could possibly have kept the boy alive. Was it a sin? I don't care if it was, I sleep better for it.

Michelle

You're gonna burn in hell for that one. It was probably God's will for them to kill the other kid.
(I'm being very sarcastic) Even if it were a sin in God's eyes I would have done the same thing and asked for forgiveness afterward. If they killed me on the spot because they knew I was lying then so be it. I still know that I'm forgiven. I'm sure God will see the motive and get beyond it.
I can't believe people (especially Christians) put God in a box like He sits around looking up the rules to make sure we're all playing fair. I'm sure He considers our motives.
God would never lead us to sin but who are we to say exactly what constitutes sin? It's merely our simple minded interpretation of something that runs deeper than our comprehension.

Miss Shelby · Apr 20, 2004

Blessed75 said:
I LOVE YA WOMAN! Thanks Michelle - you RAWK!

Rawk on with YOUR bad self...I mean you're not so bad yourself.

Michelle

Miss Shelby · Apr 20, 2004

muzikdude said:
I'm sure He considers our motives.

Yes, I think this is the key. The same people who will contend there is no grey area on this issue ignore Biblical examples, Rahab in particular, who lied in order help someone. Why is that?

If you really want to get some peeps riled up tell them that Jesus was technically a liar since He taught in parables. Parables aren't truth. They're stories. Is there any grey there?

That one really gets people mad.

Michelle

Would lying be considered a sin?

Saved by grace through faith.

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