Would it matter if God did NOT exist?

Blissman · Dec 8, 2003

Suppose for the sake of arguement, that there was no God. Suppose that there had never been a God. Suppose that today there is no God. Suppose that all of the Bible was written by man.
Would it matter?
You cannot prove that there is a God. The ideas of God and of all religions that
I am aware of, are not based on scientific evidence. You can't literally produce God in a lab. Religion is based on believing what can not be proven (That is why they call it faith.)
Consider what our faith has provided us (both good and bad, for people are killed in the name of God). Is religion about fact or is it about interpretion? Is it possible for mortal man to know anything other than an interpretation?

Mylinkay Asdara · Dec 8, 2003

When you say assume there is no God do you mean the God of Abraham? and related Christian concepts or do you mean Deity/higherpower/creator in general and in all forms?

PhantomLlama · Dec 8, 2003

I have never seen why a God existing is a cause for absolute moral truth in the world, because either:

God decreed what was moral based on his/her/its knowledge of a greater moral truth, in which case we must ask for a basis for that greater truth.

God decreed what was moral based on his own opinion about what was moral, in which case I see no reason to give his/her/its opinion credence over anything else.

Lyle · Dec 8, 2003

You see everything of morality and law is based on a Higher being, for God has instilled it within man to seek th truth and to desire things higher then himself (echoed throughout history) . But for the sake of debate, without God (or gods at all0 we would have no concept of morality, or right or wrong...

tcampen · Dec 8, 2003

Lyle said:
You see everything of morality and law is based on a Higher being, for God has instilled it within man to seek th truth and to desire things higher then himself (echoed throughout history) . But for the sake of debate, without God (or gods at all) we would have no concept of morality, or right or wrong...

Says who? Why can't we? Morality can and should make sense for its own sake on some level. The morality of murder or theft or cheating can all be understood on non-theological terms. Laws that address moral behavior, as all criminal laws do, are not based on some etheral, supernatural authority, but on (usually) good reasons. It gets back to to PhantomLlama's restatement of Bertrand Russell's point about devine morality - either good is good for its own sake, or good means nothing at all.

cybermaxx12 · Dec 8, 2003

Their is many proofs of God though like you stated you belive in him by faith not because he picked you up in his Benz and convinced you to fallow him. Though you'll find the more you trust him and take steps in your walk with him through faith he'll reviel himself more and more to you.

And for the question if their is no God would we be moral. We might be but those who would be, would be insane. Their would be no reason to be moral we would not be created in Gods image "Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tommarow we die." Though this is not the case, their is a god, we are in His image, and we should be and have every reason to fallow Him and do his will

Blissman · Dec 8, 2003

Mylinkay Asdara said:
When you say assume there is no God do you mean the God of Abraham? and related Christian concepts or do you mean Deity/higherpower/creator in general and in all forms?

God or Gods by any way that you perceive Him (or Her).

TwinCrier · Dec 8, 2003

If there is no God, if all my faith is in vain and that still small voice that speaks to my spirit is really just a figment of my imagination, then when I die I will cease to exist, so it wouldn't bother me at that point. And as for those who kill in the name of their god, they too will not exist and will never get punished or rewarded for what they have done. But since those they wronged also do not exist, there is no need for vengence. I guess if there is no god, it doesn't matter to anyone since this life is it... But I am so glad that my redeemer liveth!!!

tcampen · Dec 8, 2003

cybermaxx12 said:
And for the question if their is no God would we be moral. We might be but those who would be, would be insane. Their would be no reason to be moral we would not be created in Gods image "Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tommarow we die." Though this is not the case, their is a god, we are in His image, and we should be and have every reason to fallow Him and do his will

The evidence does not seem to support the notion there can be no morality without the Christian God. First, there are plenty of societies that have no influence from the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God, yet still are moral. See most of Asia until recently, or the native people of North and South America, or much of Africa, etc. They are not the models of anarchy your hypothesis predicts, either now or historically. Second, just because you can't think of a reason to be moral without YOUR concept of God does not mean others cannot find reasons to moral outside of your concept of God. Some of us can understand why morality must make sense. For example, criminal laws are examples of penal enforcement of morality. These laws are enacted for articulable reasons, not on reliance of an arbitrary interpretation of a supernatural authority. Since we can comprehend these good reasons for morality which are independent of any concept of God, this is proof your hypothesis of there being no morality with God is flawed.

Natro · Dec 8, 2003

TwinCrier said:
If there is no God, if all my faith is in vain and that still small voice that speaks to my spirit is really just a figment of my imagination, then when I die I will cease to exist, so it wouldn't bother me at that point. And as for those who kill in the name of their god, they too will not exist and will never get punished or rewarded for what they have done. But since those they wronged also do not exist, there is no need for vengence. I guess if there is no god, it doesn't matter to anyone since this life is it... But I am so glad that my redeemer liveth!!!

First of all there is never a need for vengence. Secondly are you sure the voice in you is not you?
Anyways more to the point. Why is it that morality needs a punishment? If there was no god would your life be so hopeless that you wouldn't take care of your children? Life has a meaning if there is no God, and it is the best one, the one you yourself create. Just because you cease to exist after you die doesn't mean the life your living now is worthless. Go around and look at humanity. You may see bad but you will also see good. In a world of pain and suffering isn't a single joy or smile good enough to live for?

TwinCrier · Dec 9, 2003

Natro said:
In a world of pain and suffering isn't a single joy or smile good enough to live for?

Uhh, no. Call me crazy, but I need more. Eternal life with my creator ought to do the trick.

pentecostal girl · Dec 9, 2003

Would it matter if God did NOT exist?

Click to expand...

IF god didn't ever exist, how would it possible for us to exist? We just didn't form from nothing, it's impossible for somthing to form from nothing.

Natro · Dec 10, 2003

pentecostal girl said:
IF god didn't ever exist, how would it possible for us to exist? We just didn't form from nothing, it's impossible for somthing to form from nothing.

Yet god can come from nothing?

Osiris · Dec 10, 2003

TwinCrier said:
Uhh, no. Call me crazy, but I need more. Eternal life with my creator ought to do the trick.

well, well, aren't we a little bit spoiled?

so the only reason you are religious is so you can save your own skin?
not to do good and make people happy?

if God told you to try to save(teach about the word) as many people as you could, but at the end only those people would be saved but not you. Would you be religious? From your answer I think that you wouldn't.
But it's ok, most religious people are that way, they are only religious because of their fear of dying.

chris0513 · Dec 10, 2003

I will agree that far too many people are Christian out of a sheer desire for "fire insurance" but to assume that TwinCrier would not be Christian except out of a fear of dying is ludacrious. I will agree that some out there are teaching 90% law and 10% grace (Ray Comfort is a perfect example) and yes, we are all given the Great Commission in Matthew, but let's face it, if 95% of Christians will never lead someone to Christ, the rest of us 5% need to step it up.

I question your tone, Osiris. Asking the purely hypothetical question as to whether I would be Christian if everyone I taught about the Word would be saved but I would not is a false question. No one can answer that nonsense correctly.

We are sinners, friend. All of us would choose our own Salvation over that of others, and you will never convince me otherwise because it will never come to pass. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God, and we would all choose our own skin, because all we do we do because we love Christ. Without Salvation, there is no love for Christ, and if there is no love, there is no teaching about His Word.

I would ask you to refrain from the judgement (and calling someone effectively a carnal Christian is, in my humble opinion, judgement. Only God knows the state of TwinCrier's soul) and not read so much into posts. TwinCrier's post indicated that the existential longing for a smile or a touch of false joy (as empirical joy without Christ is just that, false) is not enough. And I agree!

If existential joy were sufficient, we'd all be humanists and living hedonistic lifestyles. But we have Joy Complete!!!

John 16:22 says "So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy."

This is Jesus referring to the time of His resurrection. When He was resurrected, our Joy became complete.

Without absolute surrender to Christ, our joy is never more than false. Hence the reason Nietzche died, quite ironically, a mad man (he died insane).

Hope this helps.

In Christ,

Chris

Lyle · Dec 10, 2003

Says who? Why can't we? Morality can and should make sense for its own sake on some level. The morality of murder or theft or cheating can all be understood on non-theological terms. Laws that address moral behavior, as all criminal laws do, are not based on some etheral, supernatural authority, but on (usually) good reasons. It gets back to to PhantomLlama's restatement of Bertrand Russell's point about devine morality - either good is good for its own sake, or good means nothing at all.

I would start by looking up the history of morality and where the rules came from.. They will all be linked to beginning with some god or another.. Because they come from God and are instilled into the hearts of men... Just as the animals really have not established any law of their own.....

pentecostal girl · Dec 10, 2003

Yet god can come from nothing?

God is God, he's different! Know what I mean. He was here in the very begging, before anything was made. God Bless

revolutio · Dec 10, 2003

pentecostal girl said:
God is God, he's different! Know what I mean. He was here in the very begging, before anything was made. God Bless

Then what was there before beginning?

Natro · Dec 10, 2003

pentecostal girl said:
God is God, he's different! Know what I mean. He was here in the very begging, before anything was made. God Bless

Now replace all referances of God with "the universe" and replace he with "its/it".

Fr0st2k · Dec 10, 2003

yes it would matter if there wasnt a god, because first off, no one would have to waste there time going to church, no one would waste their time praying and hoping for something that wont come true because they prayed for it. People would start trying to help themselves more, gain confidence in themselves instead of placing it with a being that might not even exist...thats just a few reasons why it would matter

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