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AskTheFamily

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You know when I play Zelda, there is an explanation to how things are in that world, and it makes sense too and you have to close yourself off to thinking of reasons that contradict it.

Evolution is a perspective and explanation, is it the right explanation? I don't personally believe so. Big bang is a perspective and explanation, but is it right? I don't think so.

Both of them to me are easily refuted by me perceiving a concept of irreducible complexity that no matter how much Iblis causes his followers to mock, proves a lot. And it's not only things in biology that is irreducibly complex, Gaia theory is true to in that respect, and as well as the universe in in wondrous form is irreducibly complex. It can be easily proven scientifically and rationally, but keep listening to people who speak none sense all day... and don't dare to give God a chance at imparting you wisdom and making you perceive the truth. See where it will get you!
 
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anonymous person

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That's very interesting dlamberth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me on that subject. My second question is related to the first. Where did human beings come from?
 
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dlamberth

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That's very interesting dlamberth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me on that subject. My second question is related to the first. Where did human beings come from?
I look at human beings from a couple of directions. First I recognize the Human body evolving into it's present form in the same way that every other life form everywhere has evolved. But I also recognize that everything that exist also has a Soul. And so I see the Human Soul and every other Soul as being the Soul of the Universe. And like my previous post in this thread, when I change to my Lover of God perspective, I recognize the Human Soul as the Soul of God. What that does for me is to see every Human Being and life itself as Sacred.
 
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anonymous person

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That's fascinating that you do volunteer data processing for them. I did not even know that was possible. The question of origins not only applies to the universe, but to human beings. To what do human beings owe their existence?
 
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anonymous person

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Quite interesting indeed! You have made some points worth consideration. So tell me, since you view morality in this way, what are the implications for the destiny of human beings? What do you think happens to us when we die?
 
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anonymous person

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Yes: is it not all in the end merely guesses and opinions?

If it is impossible to know anything about the universe, then how do you know that it is impossible to know anything about the universe? Is not this view self-refuting?

I see. IMO, from my Buddhist perspective, such questions are ultimately irrelevant because - as stated above - all potential answers, from a conceptual level, can only be unverifiable guesses and opinions.

Is the statement, "all potential answers, from a conceptual level, can only be unverifiable guesses and opinions" itself an unverifiable guess and opinion? If so, why think any of it is actually true?


Are you guessing that the universe exists on the phenomenological level? Is it an unverifiable guess and opinion that the universe can be explained in the way that you have explained it?

Likewise, the universe ceases to exist when one's consciousness no longer experiences it. Detached, depriving desire of its fuel, one's experience of the universe ceases.

Interesting!

As I see it, ultimately, questions such as this are rooted in a desire to know & understand; and, when we do not know or understand, we experience discontentment. Therefore, the root problem is discontentment, which should be the real question.

If it is impossible to know these things, then how can you say that the root problem is discontentment? It seems to me that if what you say was true, we would never know that discontentment was the root problem. In fact, we would not be able to say we know anything, even that nothing can be known!

With regards to meaning, what are your views on meaning? Does life have meaning and purpose? If so, what is it?
 
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awitch

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Quite interesting indeed! You have made some points worth consideration. So tell me, since you view morality in this way, what are the implications for the destiny of human beings? What do you think happens to us when we die?

The common folklore associated with my pantheon is that we travel to the Otherworld called Tir Na Nog; a paradise realm of the gods and eternal youth and happiness. But of course, any description of an afterlife is pure wishful thinking. While Tir Na Nog sounds like a nice place to visit, most likely, I expect we just stop existing.

As for humans in general, we will eventually go extinct and the rest of the Universe will continue to do its thing long after we're gone. If there's still life on whichever planet we last lived, another species will eventually rise to take our place. I'm hoping it'll be avian.
 
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anonymous person

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Thank you Jane_the_Bane for sharing your thoughts with me on these issues. It seems that I agree with you that the findings of science when it comes to the universe and its evolution from a singularity to what we observe now, at the very least, causes one to entertain notions of the metaphysical.
 
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anonymous person

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Your views put you right up there with great minds like Gottfried Leibniz. Leibniz argued that the ultimate reason for the existence of anything is that there must be a necessary being. Of course, Leibniz identified this metaphysically necessary being as God, as do I and many other Christian philosophers. So I think you are headed in the right direction. Plantinga's work on the Ontological argument is worth checking out if you have not already.

So tell me, what are your thoughts on how human beings came to be. To what do we owe our existence and is there meaning and purpose in life? If so, what is it?
 
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anonymous person

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When you say that the origin is Humpty Dumpty, what do you mean?
 
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ananda

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Experience of externals and experience of experience itself are two distinct things.

Are you guessing that the universe exists on the phenomenological level? Is it an unverifiable guess and opinion that the universe can be explained in the way that you have explained it?
No, it is my direct knowledge that I only directly know phenomenological events, because those are the only things I can directly know.

Discontentment is directly experienced. Things "outside" in the universe are not directly experienced.

With regards to meaning, what are your views on meaning? Does life have meaning and purpose? If so, what is it?
IMO life's meaning and purpose is to dispel discontentment and increase contentment. It drives literally all of our actions, as I see it.
 
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anonymous person

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Wow! Thank you AskTheFamily for such a well thought out and informative response. I definitley have never met someone who has explained to me a view of Islam like this. You have given me quite a lot to think about and I think in what you wrote, I can find your answers to all four questions!!
 
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anonymous person

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I would like to ask you a question about something you said with regards to morality but I will come back to it later. Since you mentioned afterlife points, I will go ahead and ask you, what do you think happens to humans when they die?
 
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anonymous person

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I thank you for your candor. I admire you for your ability to honestly share your views with me here. So tell me, what implications do the aforementioned views have for meaning and purpose? Is there a meaning and purpose to life? If so, what is it?
 
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Robban

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When you say that the origin is Humpty Dumpty, what do you mean?

Well, it was not a direct answer to origin, I admit.

But, why were we born into a broken world, and what are to do about it.

Tikkun Olam (fix the world) is a profound concept,
the place where mysticism meets activism.

I do not have time to respond more now but later today.

Origin, A thought, began with a thought, it really does not bother me though.

"Let there be light."

Why?

Why would there be need for light if there was nothing to see?
 
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anonymous person

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I'm, bit by bit, developing a clearer picture of how it is you see the world. So tell me, do humans have meaning and purpose in life, if so what is it?
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I would like to ask you a question about something you said with regards to morality but I will come back to it later. Since you mentioned afterlife points, I will go ahead and ask you, what do you think happens to humans when they die?
Short answer: they are dead.
Long answer: our psyche, our identity is not a monolithic whole, let alone a pre-existing essence incorporating a body that works like an empty shell. Our senses, our emotions, our memories all depend on (and are generated by) our physical being, even if our consciousness is more than the sum of its parts. Our "self" changes all the time , is often self-contradictory, and very much mortal.
I'm open to the notion that consciousness is a universal property of reality and that we return to a greater Whole upon death. But our "selves" are but constructs, as frail and as mortal as the rest of us.

Buddha actually figured this out 2500 years ago, and modern psychology and neuro-sciences support it.
 
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dlamberth

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I'm, bit by bit, developing a clearer picture of how it is you see the world. So tell me, do humans have meaning and purpose in life, if so what is it?
Again, I have to look at your question from several different directions. On one end, I see our Human Form as basically animals with all of the purpose that all other animals have, like breeding, raising children, gathering food and so forth. On the other end I have to look at the evolution of consciousness that on this earth has peeked in the form of Human Beings. I don't know if that gives us "meaning", but it is a form of purpose such that because of consciousness we are the Universe being aware of it's self. When putting on the hat of a Lover of God, and experiencing God as the very foundation of all there is, we are God being aware of Itself.
 
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Silmarien

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Yes, I'm very familiar with Christian natural theology, though I tend to prefer the Patristic and medieval periods. I do like Leibniz, though.

So tell me, what are your thoughts on how human beings came to be. To what do we owe our existence and is there meaning and purpose in life? If so, what is it?

Human beings evolved, and we owe our existence to the natural history of life on this planet. Had events played out differently and mammals not managed to prosper, we would not be here. Though I suspect that a different intelligent species would have evolved instead, sooner or later.

My thoughts on purpose and meaning are much more difficult (and dark, given my existentialist background), so I can't really address that topic without jumping forward to the issue of destiny. I am personally agnostic on the question of the immortality of the soul--I see the individual self as a process rather than a discrete substance, and given the ephemerality of processes, I have some difficulty seeing the self as an individual surviving death. I think there are ways of conceiving of it that work, but I am far from convinced.

This shoves me straight into Absurdist waters, however, since I view meaning as an inherently teleological concept, and it is unclear to me what purpose a finite life could possibly have. Even on some sort of pantheistic ontology, where we could say that we are playing a role in the universe knowing or expressing itself, that seems of little interest to us if we are interchangeable and our roles end with our lives. I'm left agreeing with Albert Camus that the only important question in philosophy is suicide, though I would answer it differently than he did. If life is a farce, I see no compelling reason to play along with it. It's the rejection a meaningless and indifferent reality that ultimately strikes me as the most powerful statement of autonomy.

My answer is to accept a Pascalian Wager on the immortality of the soul. If my decidedly dark philosophy here is right, I gain nothing because there's nothing to be gained, but if it is wrong, I am into rebellion territory in the theological sense. Which is clearly bad. At the end of the day, I think meaning can only exist by standing in the presence of the Absolute, recognizing that you are ultimately powerless, trusting that reality is actually valuable in a meaningful sense, and then living your life as authentically as possible. I do not think losing yourself in your work, in other people, or whatever else is a suitable replacement for the type of meaning that we crave.

Like I said, I am pretty Christianity-lite. Or Christianity-dark-dark-dark, as the case may be this time around. I think it's one of the things that keeps me from slipping off into the waters of Vedic idealism.
 
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Arthra

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I am looking for some people who are not Christians to have a discussion with to better understand their worldview. The discussion will focus on answers to at least four topics which worldviews deal with: origin, meaning, morality, and destiny.

The Baha'i world view is an essential aspect of our Faith...

There is a well-known prayer that indicates our world view:

"O God! Make our souls dependent upon the Verses of Thy Divine Unity, our hearts cheered with the outpourings of Thy Grace, that we may unite even as the waves of one sea and become merged together as the rays of Thine effulgent Light; that our thoughts, our views, our feelings may become as one reality, manifesting the spirit of union throughout the world. Thou art the Gracious, the Bountiful, the Bestower, the Almighty, the Merciful, the Compassionate."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 405

and the following also applies:

"As we view the world around us, we are compelled to observe the manifold evidences of that universal fermentation which, in every continent of the globe and in every department of human life, be it religious, social, economic or political, is purging and reshaping humanity in anticipation of the Day when the wholeness of the human race will have been recognized and its unity established."

(Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 288)
 
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