work/servile work

gadar perets · Sep 16, 2017

Deuteronomy 29:9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.
10 You stand this day all of you before YHWH your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That you should enter into covenant with YHWH thy God, and into his oath, which YHWH thy God makes with thee this day:
13 That He may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as He has said unto thee, and as He hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

This seems to teach that wives must obey the words of the covenant as well. That would include the words of the Sabbath and other holy days as well.

visionary · Sep 16, 2017

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

BukiRob · Sep 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
That's not work - God doesn't expect babies and very young children to starve and be helpless on Sabbath. Good grief - where's the mercy in that?

It's okay to feed & take care of livestock on Sabbath - how much more a human being with helpless children or sick people?

Wives are called to obey the Sabbath and not do servile work.

Did not Yeshua himself when speaking about the Shabbat say: And he said to them, “Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?”

BukiRob · Sep 18, 2017

BukiRob said:
Did not Yeshua himself when speaking about the Shabbat say: And he said to them, “Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?”

People make this out to be more than it really is. Yeshua and the Father are more focused on your HEART and what is going on there than necessarily the "letter of the law"

One needs to be concerned with both but the greater importance is on what is going on in your heart. We need to guard on being as Yeshua said like the Pharisees "polished sepulchers"

Open Heart · Sep 18, 2017

Heber Book List said:
So daughters and maidservants are not women?

"in it you shall not do any work" YOU refers to adults. It is only in sexist mindsets that YOU is imagined to be only men. There is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Jewish wives were not commanded to refrain from the 39 melachot, just as Jewish men were, not in the Bible, not in Oral Torah. Certain work was NECESSARY, such as the work of the Kohanim and Levi'im in the Tabernacle/Temple. But when it came to the 39 melachot, they applied equally to men and women.

Heber Book List · Sep 19, 2017

Open Heart said:
"in it you shall not do any work" YOU refers to adults. It is only in sexist mindsets that YOU is imagined to be only men. There is not a shred of evidence to indicate that Jewish wives were not commanded to refrain from the 39 melachot, just as Jewish men were, not in the Bible, not in Oral Torah. Certain work was NECESSARY, such as the work of the Kohanim and Levi'im in the Tabernacle/Temple. But when it came to the 39 melachot, they applied equally to men and women.

a) So, now, slaves and handmaidens are not adults? If 'you' refers to adults, why did G_d think it necessary to list who the 'you' are? He lists sons and daughters which, together with your 'you' idea would have been sufficient as it would covered everyone over 12 or 13 yrs of age.
b) I have NOT said that wives could do any sort of work - that is a figment in the minds of other posters, not me. In fact I posted to make that crystal clear - several times. It just needs to be read!
c) Of course Temple work had to carry on.
d) Yes, again, I have affirmed that women are covered by the Law, with caveats regarding family needs, in my posts.
e) Nothing is sexist in this except in the mind of those who try to reduce the value of women in the eyes of G_d by making claims that they are not special when it comes to provision for care in the family.

Open Heart · Sep 20, 2017

Heber Book List said:
a) So, now, slaves and handmaidens are not adults? If 'you' refers to adults, why did G_d think it necessary to list who the 'you' are? He lists sons and daughters which, together with your 'you' idea would have been sufficient as it would covered everyone over 12 or 13 yrs of age.
b) I have NOT said that wives could do any sort of work - that is a figment in the minds of other posters, not me. In fact I posted to make that crystal clear - several times. It just needs to be read!
c) Of course Temple work had to carry on

a)The concept that we were not to ask others to do for us what is forbidden to us on the Shabbat had to be established. It is repeated more than once in different ways, if I remember correctly.
b)Shabbat forbids the 39 melachot (labors). Which of these are wives permitted to break that husbands are not?
c) So then we agree that certain things which were necessary, such as making temple offerings and carrying children were allowed on Shabbos.

If I could make my point succinctly, it is that the 39 forbidden labors equally apply to women and men, except where necessity is noted (such as carrying a child or temple service).

mark kennedy · Sep 20, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
This debate will all come to ruin over these questions:

What is work?

Who has the authority to define work?

Most fundamentalists are 'scripture alone' people who reject any authority and only do what they think God is telling them to do personally. In this case, every man is a law unto themselves.

Jesus made it clear that working on the Sabbath to relieve suffering was permissible.

A man with a withered hand was there. In order to accuse Jesus, they asked Him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” He replied, “If one of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matt. 12:10-12)

The Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. It's a gift, never intended to be a burden.

Heber Book List · Sep 21, 2017

Open Heart said:
a)The concept that we were not to ask others to do for us what is forbidden to us on the Shabbat had to be established. It is repeated more than once in different ways, if I remember correctly.
b)Shabbat forbids the 39 melachot (labors). Which of these are wives permitted to break that husbands are not?
c) So then we agree that certain things which were necessary, such as making temple offerings and carrying children were allowed on Shabbos.

If I could make my point succinctly, it is that the 39 forbidden labors equally apply to women and men, except where necessity is noted (such as carrying a child or temple service).

If I could put it less than succinctly - I know! I have been saying that throughout the thread which you would know had you read all the posts! The caveat allowing a woman to do certain tasks is NOT a free get out of jail pass to break the Law in any way she chooses.

Heber Book List · Sep 21, 2017

mark kennedy said:
Jesus made it clear that working on the Sabbath to relieve suffering was permissible.

A man with a withered hand was there. In order to accuse Jesus, they asked Him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” He replied, “If one of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matt. 12:10-12)

The Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. It's a gift, never intended to be a burden.

Yes, we know. It has been said previously on this thread.

Open Heart · Sep 21, 2017

Heber Book List said:
If I could put it less than succinctly - I know! I have been saying that throughout the thread which you would know had you read all the posts! The caveat allowing a woman to do certain tasks is NOT a free get out of jail pass to break the Law in any way she chooses.

I fully confess that I don't read the entire thread. I use the ALERT system, which gives me links to those posts which quote me, and occasionally to other posts in threads where I have been active. But MOST of any thread is not read by me.

I obviously misunderstood you, and you have my sincerest apologies!

work/servile work

gadar perets

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visionary

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BukiRob

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