Wizard of Oz Mass

Carrye · Apr 25, 2006

plainswolf said:
While reporting abuse is always the right thing to do

The problem isn't whether or not to report, but the attitude with which the person reports. Is it arrogance smeared on the walls? Or righteous anger?

So many of these liturgy threads miss the big picture, and encourage people in their academic or spiritual pride. It also makes me sad that there are so many Catholics willing to jump on the "why the Church stinks" bandwagon, yet fail to see (or at least discuss) more positive things.

We talk about the media being negative and polemic. We should look in the mirror.

Carrye · Apr 25, 2006

The third thing that we're called upon, as brother priests, is to sanctify. You're going to make a renewal of your promise later to celebrate the liturgy with sincere devotion; that's all about sanctifying. And what does that mean, with sincere devotion? That means, minimally, as I've said before, that with Pope Benedict and with me, you and I give the people of God the liturgy of the Church to which they have a right. We give them what's in the book. If sometimes some of them want something else, then we give them an explanation why that's not a good idea. We explain it with a smile and with love.

Our sanctifying office is oriented toward that day, when every eye will see Him, in the Church and in His risen body, even of those who pierced Him. So we teach, we govern, and we sanctify so that the people of God become holy in truth and in love. When the people of God become holy in truth and in love, then all the nations will see us, as the first reading says, and they will acknowledge us as blessed. Until we become totally one in the body of Christ, as brother priests, teaching, governing, and sanctifying, all the nations won't see us as blessed, they'll see us as something else. That's the first point.
...
The second promise, I referred to before, has to do with celebrating the liturgy with sincere devotion. If you promise to celebrate the liturgy with sincere devotion, I've got to be honest, you promise to follow the book, because the book is the beginning of sincere devotion. Pope Benedict, in the last two documents of the Church, wants us to give people the liturgical rites of the Church to which they have a right. If we're going to stand up and promise to do that today, then let's stand up and promise to do it. People want that, people deserve that and you don't want anything but what's for their best.

You should all be thrilled that these priests think that way about you, that's all they want, to love you, through the Word, the sacraments, and through charity. They don't want anything else, not one, except what's for your good.

-- Bp. Robert Morlino, Diocese of Madison

benedictine · Apr 25, 2006

Please, everyone, remember that for each time we see a parish engaging in illicit and abusive liturgical and other religious practices, remember that there is another parish that is just as orthodox and reverent as it should be.

Pray for the church, for her priests, and for her laity.

plainswolf · Apr 25, 2006

Carrye said:
The problem isn't whether or not to report, but the attitude with which the person reports. Is it arrogance smeared on the walls? Or righteous anger?

So many of these liturgy threads miss the big picture, and encourage people in their academic or spiritual pride. It also makes me sad that there are so many Catholics willing to jump on the "why the Church stinks" bandwagon, yet fail to see (or at least discuss) more positive things.

We talk about the media being negative and polemic. We should look in the mirror.

Actually no attitude at all, but a simple, benign letter stating what took place and continued to take place. The reply was "Stop worrying about the Masons."

+

Carrye · Apr 25, 2006

plainswolf said:
Actually no attitude at all, but a simple, benign letter stating what took place and continued to take place. The reply was "Stop worrying about the Masons."

And is that ok? Of course not.

plainswolf · Apr 25, 2006

Carrye, I agree with you that the right thing to do is report abuses, in fact it would be our duty to do so. The point I am making is to be prepared when you do, you may well be treated badly and accused because of it, of being 'holier than thou' and 'a know it all' among other things..

Thankfully in the last decade things became better, and much better under the new bishop we got abit over a year ago.

+

Carrye · Apr 25, 2006

plainswolf said:
Thankfully in the last decade things became better, and much better under the new bishop we got abit over a year ago.

Me too . . . in all of my recent dioceses.

QuantaCura · Apr 25, 2006

Things could be and have been worse, and they have gotten better. I don't know of any bishops that deny the Divinity of Christ, our pope doesn't have a brigade of prostitutes hanging out at the Vatican, and no one's tried to sell me an indulgence. If we could bounce back from stuff like that, we'll bounce back from the rough spots in today's Church. Prayer and penances are the answer.

We're on the upswing I think. I look at the parish my dad grew up with and the one I grew up with. His was a beautiful parish with beautifl stained glass. Then they plastered up the stained glass and removed the crucifix. But then, one day, the crucifix was back and the stained glass was uncovered. And the last time I went it was more ornate and beautiful than he remembered as a kid.

At the parish I grew up at, our tapestry of a clean shaven smiling Jesus was replaced with a Crucifix, beautiful stained glass windows were added, the place where the folk band would play was turned into a shrine to Our Lady, and clapping after the solo performance during Communion was banned.

Carrye · Apr 25, 2006

^ What he said.

Michie · Apr 25, 2006

Carrye said:
The problem isn't whether or not to report, but the attitude with which the person reports. Is it arrogance smeared on the walls? Or righteous anger?

So many of these liturgy threads miss the big picture, and encourage people in their academic or spiritual pride. It also makes me sad that there are so many Catholics willing to jump on the "why the Church stinks" bandwagon, yet fail to see (or at least discuss) more positive things.

We talk about the media being negative and polemic. We should look in the mirror.

Well pooh, I can't rep you.

gitlance · Apr 25, 2006

Carrye said:
The problem isn't whether or not to report, but the attitude with which the person reports. Is it arrogance smeared on the walls? Or righteous anger?

So many of these liturgy threads miss the big picture, and encourage people in their academic or spiritual pride. It also makes me sad that there are so many Catholics willing to jump on the "why the Church stinks" bandwagon, yet fail to see (or at least discuss) more positive things.

We talk about the media being negative and polemic. We should look in the mirror.

The Church sure doesn't stink. She's beautiful. But some priests could stand to be reminded of just how beautiful she is.

Caedmon · Apr 25, 2006

Carrye said:
How do you get anyone to do what you want? One of two ways:

1) Beat them over the head into submission.
2) Non-violent means.

(2) seems more effective. So how does one do that? Pray for a spirit of humility. Write to him. Go talk to him. Love him as a brother. If he does not take your charitable fraternal correction, then humbly approach the bishop.

I'm certainly not suggesting that people should sit back and accept liturgical inventions (where they are truly so, and not simply a result of one's own distaste). I'm suggesting that people not go in with their torches blazing, wearing their "if you only knew how much better I am than you" t-shirt.

Well I may be interpreting differently, but I haven't seen any clear cases of (1) - or the associated attitudes you listed - in this thread.

Caedmon · Apr 26, 2006

plainswolf said:
While reporting abuse is always the right thing to do, such as if your parish was reserving the front row for the Masons among other things, be prepared to be treated like a pariah in your own parish, have these very accusations thrown at you and looked upon with scorn by your own priest. In either case, your darned if you do and darned if you don't, either way you'll get the very same things hurled at you.

+

Absolutely. If you start raising concern over abuses, you're going to get ostracized by someone and get labeled a trouble-maker, holier-than-thou, etc., no matter how charitably you voice your concerns.

Caedmon · Apr 26, 2006

Carrye said:
The problem isn't whether or not to report, but the attitude with which the person reports. Is it arrogance smeared on the walls? Or righteous anger?

So many of these liturgy threads miss the big picture, and encourage people in their academic or spiritual pride. It also makes me sad that there are so many Catholics willing to jump on the "why the Church stinks" bandwagon, yet fail to see (or at least discuss) more positive things.

We talk about the media being negative and polemic. We should look in the mirror.

I don't understand where this is coming from. I've never seen this type of attitude in the parishes I go to. I haven't talked to a single Catholic in real life that thinks "the Church stinks," regarding liturgical abuses. I have, however, heard my own parish's administrator ridicule people who, in the past, wrote the bishop, describing abuses such as female servers (before they were allowed).

Michie · Apr 26, 2006

*doublepost*

Michie · Apr 26, 2006

Well, I pretty easygoing about a lot of things. But this is a little too 'out there' for me. I see no purpose in it in what exactly they are trying to accomplish by incorporating the Wizard of Oz into Mass or the Stations.

Has me baffled actually but at the same time, I do not feel qualified to judge them either.

If it were happening in my Parish, I'd write the Bishop & send a few pics.

Other than that...praying is always an option.

Aaron-Aggie · Apr 26, 2006

Michie said:
Well pooh, I can't rep you.

me niether

Mister Emu · Apr 26, 2006

our pope doesn't have a brigade of prostitutes hanging out at the Vatican

*scratches "visit Vatican" off of list of things to do*

That whole Wizard of Oz thing seemed really off to me...

This brings up a question, to me, what exactly is a liturgical abuse? More specifically, what is the threshold of different way of having Mass and abuse?

WarriorAngel · Apr 26, 2006

We're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz...because because because of all the wonderful things he does.

Ok, now that's out of my system.

I have a priest running the kids school, whom I am praying for, I spoke to him, and the Bishop would take his side...but he is trying his hardest to close the school.....!

I wish I had more time to talk to him. But I think since our last conversation, he is avoiding me.
Altho I took care in discussing things with him.

O well, pray harder...and hopefully in union with others.

But this sad spectacle shows this priests sanity is border line...IMHO...and needs re evaluated. And I mean that kindly. There could be issues. Sadly, that might need to be addressed.

The Virgin implores we pray for her sons.

RhetorTheo · Apr 26, 2006

What would be worse: a priest holding a Wizard of Oz mass, or a priest holding a tridentine mass without an indult?

Wizard of Oz Mass

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