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Witch hunting

NothingIsImpossible

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I think they did it for the same reason they did slavery, because they were extremists who were more like cult members. I've never seen scripture that says your to burn witches at the stake, it doesn't say they were to be killed, at least that I know of. But then again I never focused on the OT stories because that was before Jesus was sent, thus different times, different laws..etc. But besides that it was meant for the time in Israel were "sorcery" was used. Then again at that time people worshipped and endless amount of gods depending on where they from.
 
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Petros2015

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Supposedly, witches were condemned in the Bible. If that is true, why do Christians no longer practice it?

Probably a reference to Exodus 22:18, "suffer not a witch to live". That was part of Mosaic Law for the Jews, a priestly nation.

That and similar scriptures were used to justify executions. In the Salem witch trials, it was mostly fear based I imagine, and other people exploiting the fear in a society where there weren't civil and legal penalties for carrying out the executions.

As for why it isn't practiced today... very few people these days attribute things like sickness or miscarriages to witches, so the fear of witches is (I imagine) at an all-time low. Just below Carbs. I don't feel Christians are really under Mosaic Law in the same sense that the Jewish nation was. (I don't feel a particular need to go witch-hunting, just an obligation to not practice witchcraft myself). At a national level there are civil and legal penalties against killing people that didn't exist or weren't enforced in places like Salem. There are still plenty of exploiters though who will do things and justify them for various reasons, be it zealotry or personal gain. That part of human nature hasn't changed.

So basically, if someone were to pass a law in the US that said "it's OK to kill witches" I think we would shortly have *a lot* of witch killings, both of practicing witches and people accused of being practicing witches. I wouldn't call the killings "Christian" though, even if the people doing them claimed the title. Just acts of evil, ego, and/or fear. People seem to like to kill each other as soon as they can get away with it, I have observed this. Pretty sure that's not Christ's command for Christians. But He already told us what He was going to say to them:

Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:31-46
 
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Occams Barber

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Probably a reference to Exodus 22:18, "suffer not a witch to live". That was part of Mosaic Law for the Jews, a priestly nation.

That and similar scriptures were used to justify executions. In the Salem witch trials, it was mostly fear based I imagine, and other people exploiting the fear in a society where there weren't civil and legal penalties for carrying out the executions.

As for why it isn't practiced today... very few people these days attribute things like sickness or miscarriages to witches, so the fear of witches is (I imagine) at an all-time low. Just below Carbs. I don't feel Christians are really under Mosaic Law in the same sense that the Jewish nation was. (I don't feel a particular need to go witch-hunting, just an obligation to not practice witchcraft myself). At a national level there are civil and legal penalties against killing people that didn't exist or weren't enforced in places like Salem. There are still plenty of exploiters though who will do things and justify them for various reasons, be it zealotry or personal gain. That part of human nature hasn't changed.

So basically, if someone were to pass a law in the US that said "it's OK to kill witches" I think we would shortly have *a lot* of witch killings, both of practicing witches and people accused of being practicing witches. I wouldn't call the killings "Christian" though, even if the people doing them claimed the title. Just acts of evil, ego, and/or fear. People seem to like to kill each other as soon as they can get away with it, I have observed this. Pretty sure that's not Christ's command for Christians. But He already told us what He was going to say to them:

Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:31-46

Congratulations. You have just constructed an excellent case demonstrating that morality is relative - not absolute.

I agree.
OB
 
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Petros2015

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Congratulations. You have just constructed an excellent case demonstrating that morality is relative - not absolute.

And that human nature is absolute, and not relative ;)
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Reminds me of a CS Lewis quote:

"Three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the 'Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?’ But surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did—if we really thought that there were people going about who had sold themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill their neighbours or drive them mad or bring bad weather—surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did? There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believed there were no mice in the house." - Mere Christianity
 
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Adstar

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What do you think of the witch hunting that Christians practiced for centuries?

Supposedly, witches were condemned in the Bible. If that is true, why do Christians no longer practice it?

Witch hunting and killing was a rebellion against the Teachings of Jesus.. Jesus said we are to love even our enemies and not to judge.. So we are not called upon to carry out the OT death penalty against those who where under the death penalties in the OT..

While witchcraft is an evil practice and those who take part in it are under Gods eternal death sentence.. We Christians in this world are not called upon to execute anyone.. But we are called upon to share the Message of Jesus to one and all and give warning of the final judgement of God..

So all the witch hunts and burning where all done by people who where not right with God...
 
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DogmaHunter

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I think they did it for the same reason they did slavery, because they were extremists who were more like cult members. I've never seen scripture that says your to burn witches at the stake, it doesn't say they were to be killed, at least that I know of.

Exodus 22:18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

As for slavery, there's entire chapters discussing how to do it. It most certainly is and allowed practice and never condemned. It is even regulated and explained in detail on how to buy/sell slaves, how to treat them, how your off spring can inherit them, etc.

But then again I never focused on the OT stories because that was before Jesus was sent, thus different times, different laws..etc.

You mean, like the 10 commandments (which are in the OT)? Along with the other 603?

But besides that it was meant for the time in Israel were "sorcery" was used. Then again at that time people worshipped and endless amount of gods depending on where they from.

So during that time in Israel, it was okay to kill "witches" and practice slavery?
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Witch hunting and killing was a rebellion against the Teachings of Jesus.. Jesus said we are to love even our enemies and not to judge.. So we are not called upon to carry out the OT death penalty against those who where under the death penalties in the OT..

While witchcraft is an evil practice and those who take part in it are under Gods eternal death sentence.. We Christians in this world are not called upon to execute anyone.. But we are called upon to share the Message of Jesus to one and all and give warning of the final judgement of God..

So all the witch hunts and burning where all done by people who where not right with God...

But at the very least, there was a time and place such that executing a witch was a good thing. Right? Just like there was a time and place such that executing a Sabbath laborer was a good thing. Right?
 
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Adstar

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But at the very least, there was a time and place such that executing a witch was a good thing. Right? Just like there was a time and place such that executing a Sabbath laborer was a good thing. Right?

Right... Because it was for a time the will of God..
 
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JackRT

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But at the very least, there was a time and place such that executing a witch was a good thing. Right? Just like there was a time and place such that executing a Sabbath laborer was a good thing. Right?

I don't believe that was the case at all. I have no doubt that such barbarities actually happened but I certainly do not think that they were in any way "God ordained". History indicates that some of the witch hunts were a result of mass hysteria, some as a result of jealousies, some for monetary gain and some out of sheer ignorance.

An example. Most women accused of witchcraft were midwives and herbal healers. If a deformed baby was born it was called a "changeling" because it was believed that the midwife switched a healthy Christian baby for a satanic monster. In their ignorance this was more than enough for a charge of witchcraft.

A second example. The person making the accusation had a claim to a portion of the accused's estate if the charges were proven. A lonely old widow who talked to her cat and was living on a nice little bit of property was a perfect target. The cat would likely be executed as well.

However in some jurisdictions the king or prince or duke was intelligent enough to realize that there is no such thing as a witch and such accusations were dismissed.
 
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durangodawood

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Christians of today need to pause and reflect that Christians of times past earnestly, faithfully, and in good-conscience could believe they were doing Gods will in committing such atrocities.
 
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HitchSlap

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I've never seen scripture that says your to burn witches at the stake, it doesn't say they were to be killed, at least that I know of.
^^^ This is why I say atheists are better Christians than Christians.
:)
 
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JackRT

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Perhaps such witch hunts were the action of disciples who actually followed one of Jesus' commands, a command which isn't obeyed today?

I do not recall that Jesus ever spoke of witchcraft or killing people.
 
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JackRT

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Luke 19:27.

That is from a parable of Jesus. It is a character in the parable speaking not Jesus himself. Aside from that I suspect that you really do not understand the meaning of the parable. This may clear it up:

Parable of the Talents

The parable of the Talents (Mt 25:14-28) is about a servant who acts honorably by burying money given in trust, courageously denouncing an exploitive master, and as a result is consigned to extinction for his audacity.

Most people understand the story as Matthew has (cf. Lk 19:12-24). But his concluding editorial, "To all those who have, more will be given, but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away" is at odds with everything else Jesus says on the subject of haves and have-nots (Mk 10:25/Mt 19:24/Lk 18:25; Mt 6:19-21/Lk 12:33-34; Mt 19:30; Mt 20:16; Lk 6:24; Lk 16:19-31); and Jesus was obviously no capitalist. Matthew's editorial implies that the first two servants are the heroes of the story, which Jewish peasants would have found outrageous.(1)

As Richard Rohrbaugh and William Herzog have demonstrated -- though in very different ways, as we will see -- the third servant is the hero of this parable, because he acted honorably and refused to participate in the rapacious schemes of the master. Contrast with the agenda of the first two servants:

"First things first: the master's initial investment must be secured, then doubled; after that, the retainers can make their profit. They are always walking a tightrope, keeping the master's gain high enough to appease his greed and not incur his wrath while keeping their own accumulations of wealth small enough not to arouse suspicion yet lucrative enough to insure their future. The master knows the system too, and as long as the retainers keep watch of his interests and maintain a proper yield, he does not begrudge their gains. In fact, he stands to gain a great deal by encouraging the process. Not only do the retainers do his dirty work, exploiting others for profit, but they siphon off anger that would otherwise be directed at him." (Herzog, Parables as Subversive Speech, p 160).

The first two servants do exactly as expected of them, doubling the master's money and presumably making some "honest graft" on the side, as all retainers did in agrarian empires. But the third servant acts completely out of character -- this alone is the tip-off that he will be the story's hero -- by digging a hole and burying the master's money to keep it intact, acting in accordance with Jewish law.(2)

When the master (naturally) rewards the two servants, the third servant acts stunningly by blowing the whistle on him (as Herzog puts it), while at the same time giving him back the money he had buried in trust: "Master, I know that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, gathering where you did not scatter." This retainer says what every peasant has always wanted to say.

An alternate version of this parable was preserved in the Gospel of the Nazorenes (now lost), reported by Eusebius. Here the third servant is accepted with joy, while the other two are condemned. In "A Peasant Reading of the Talents/Pounds", Rohrbaugh notes the chiastic structure:

The master had three servants:

A one who squandered his master’s substance with harlots and flute girls
B one who multiplied the gain
C and one who hid the talent;

and accordingly,

C’ one was accepted with joy
B’ another merely rebuked
A’ and another cast into prison.

(Eusebius, Theophania; from Hennecke & Schneemelcher, New Testament Apocrypha 1:149)

Though I'm eternally suspicious of arguments based on chiastic structures, this one is powerful. Here we have an ancient author who rejected the Matthean judgment on the third servant, while modern critics insist on vilifying him.

Like many of Jesus' parables, the Talents ends on dark ambiguity. "The whistle-blower is no fool," says Herzog. "He realizes that he will pay a price, but he has decided to accept the cost (p 167)." The question is who his friends are after banishment. Will peasants acknowledge and respect his honorable course of action, or would the fact that he was a retainer make such meeting of the minds impossible? Listeners are left pondering the fate of an unlikely hero.

Endnotes

1. The ways in which critics have followed Matthew's (and Luke's) demonizing of the third servant are astounding. C.H. Dodd thinks that the third servant's "overcaution" and "cowardice" led to a breach in trust. T.W. Manson believes that the punishment for the third servant's "neglected opportunity" was a complete "deprivation of opportunity". Dan Via says the third servant's "refusal to take risks" led to repressed guilt and the loss of opportunity for any meaningful existence. John Donahue thinks that out of "fear of failing", the third servant refused even to try to succeed. The list could go on and on. (See Herzog, p 153.)

2. According to the Mishnah, money could be guarded honorably only by placing it in the earth: M.B. Mes. 3:10; B.B. Mes. 42a.

Bibliography

Eusebius: Theophania (from Hennecke & Schneemelcher, New Testament Apocrypha, Westminster, 1963.)

Herzog, William: Parables as Subversive Speech, Westminster John Knox, 1994.

Malina, Bruce & Rohrbaugh, Richard: Social Science Commentary on the Synoptic Gospels, Second Edition, Augsburg Fortress, 2003.

Rohrbaugh, Richard: "A Peasant Reading of the Talents/Pounds: A Text of Terror", BTB 23:32-39, 1993.
 
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ananda

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That is from a parable of Jesus. It is a character in the parable speaking not Jesus himself. Aside from that I suspect that you really do not understand the meaning of the parable. This may clear it up:
The parable was quite clearly pointing to himself:

"he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear ... A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return ... when he was returned, having received the kingdom ... 'But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.'"

The nobleman who goes "into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom" can only refer to Jesus himself.
 
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