Will Heaven be Awesome?

[Jersey]

Christians are always telling me that heaven is an awesome place and that I should accept Jesus as my savior in order to go there after I die. That really sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign?

Does that mean that I will have my own giant throne made of diamonds sitting atop a big green grassy mountain with gorgeous sunsets in every direction?

But what about the people in hell? Will I be mourning for them the whole time I'm in heaven having a great time forever without end? If that's the case then how can anybody enjoy heaven forever and ever while their friends and loved one's are roasting for eternity in pain that will never end?

Heaven might not be that much of a fun place after all right?

 

[seashale76]

Christians are always telling me that heaven is an awesome place and that I should accept Jesus as my savior in order to go there after I die. That really sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign?

Does that mean that I will have my own giant throne made of diamonds sitting atop a big green grassy mountain with gorgeous sunsets in every direction?

But what about the people in hell? Will I be mourning for them the whole time I'm in heaven having a great time forever without end? If that's the case then how can anybody enjoy heaven forever and ever while their friends and loved one's are roasting for eternity in pain that will never end?

Heaven might not be that much of a fun place after all right?

What's heaven? What's hell? Regarding heaven and hell: God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace joyfully walked around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in...tern_Orthodoxy

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[Jersey]

What's heaven? What's hell? Regarding heaven and hell: God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace joyfully walked around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in...tern_Orthodoxy

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

This really doesn't answer my questions I asked about the people in hell and will I be miserable and mourning them while they're suffering and burning in agony while I'm enjoying my green grassy mountain in heaven. Besides, is there anything in the bible that confirms anybody goes literally to heaven or is it just symbolic? Maybe the term eternal life is just a state of mind while living here on earth? who knows? How can anybody trust everything they read in religious books and even the bible for that matter?

 

[seashale76]

This really doesn't answer my questions I asked about the people in hell and will I be miserable and mourning them while they're suffering and burning in agony while I'm enjoying my green grassy mountain in heaven. Besides, is there anything in the bible that confirms anybody goes literally to heaven or is it just symbolic? Maybe the term eternal life is just a state of mind while living here on earth? who knows? How can anybody trust everything they read in religious books and even the bible for that matter?

Sure it answered your questions, they just weren't the answers you were expecting. Heaven and hell are two different experiences of the same thing. How do you mourn someone who is literally also experiencing God's presence the same as you are? One is literally in the presence of God, but it isn't so much a place as a state. The Orthodox Church isn't sola scriptura, so it doesn't really matter to me if the scriptures confirm themselves, but the Tradition of the Church certainly explains and confirms what the scriptures mean. Eternal life has nothing to do with this present life, as we are dying from the moment of birth. Eternal life is being able to withstand the presence of God, which we are able to do if we live out our lives being reconciled to God through Christ's Holy Church. One must have faith, and I certainly can't give it to you.

 

[Jersey]

Sure it answered your questions, they just weren't the answers you were expecting.

That sounds like a response one would get from a politician trying to get elected. No you didn't answer the question, you just like to think you did.

Heaven and hell are two different experiences of the same thing.

I don't understand what you are saying. Heaven is up there and hell is down there somewhere, are you saying that people in heaven and hell can communicate with one another?

How do you mourn someone who is literally also experiencing God's presence the same as you are?

Oh so is God in both heaven and hell at the same time? I thought only the devil and satan were in hell and God was in Heaven?

 

[seashale76]

"Hell" is a misnomer anyway. There is hades/sheol (the grave) and gehenna (the lake of fire). Christ descended into hades and defeated death. That was the entire purpose for Christ dying on the cross. This idea that He was both fully God and fully man gave people a way to be reconciled to God. God's presence is the lake of fire.

That sounds like a response one would get from a politician trying to get elected. No you didn't answer the question, you just like to think you did.

I don't understand what you are saying. Heaven is up there and hell is down there somewhere, are you saying that people in heaven and hell can communicate with one another?

Where do you get this up and down business? It is a situation where the unrighteous dead will remain in hades, which will then be cast into the lake of fire/gehenna (directly into the eternal presence of God) and they will be tortured by that. There will be no communication.

Oh so is God in both heaven and hell at the same time? I thought only the devil and satan were in hell and God was in Heaven?

God's presence IS heaven and hell, depending on your perspective. Nobody can escape God's presence, but these people who are experiencing "hell" will not be actively participating in the divine energies of God. They will not experience theosis.

 

[ebia]

Christians are always telling me that heaven is an awesome place and that I should accept Jesus as my savior in order to go there after I die. That really sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign?

Does that mean that I will have my own giant throne made of diamonds sitting atop a big green grassy mountain with gorgeous sunsets in every direction?

But what about the people in hell? Will I be mourning for them the whole time I'm in heaven having a great time forever without end? If that's the case then how can anybody enjoy heaven forever and ever while their friends and loved one's are roasting for eternity in pain that will never end?

Heaven might not be that much of a fun place after all right?

I would reject that picture, but fortunately that isn't a biblical one, it's a mish-mash of bits of biblical pictures with a fair bit of gnostism and medieval fantasy thrown in.

The biblical picture is one of a renewed, redeemed, restored, creation - the New Heavens and New Earth - where creation is put back on track with us being for creation what we were always supposed to be - the image of God, with a job to od. If you notice, the New Testament redefines what it is to rule, what it is to be glorified, what it is to "be first".

Likewise your vision of Hell is more medieval fantasy - the New Testament isn't that concerned with exactly what is in store for those who refuse to be part of a redeemed creation, except to say that they will (necessarly) be discarded like chaff on a winnowing fire, or rubbish thrown on Gehenna (ancient Jerusalem's ever-smoldering rubbish tip).

 

[Jersey]

God's presence IS heaven and hell, depending on your perspective. Nobody can escape God's presence, but these people who are experiencing "hell" will not be actively participating in the divine energies of God. They will not experience theosis.

So are you saying God is just sitting back and watching all those non-believers in hell being burned and tortured forever? Would you be able to just sit there and watch all that if you were God? What kind of a God would do that?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Jersey. You only know what some Christians have told you, sure Heaven is wonderful. And those you talk about, who are suffering in Hell, you cannot believe that God is all Love and Forgiveness. You have only got half the truth, God sends nobody to Hell. God gives us the free choice to choose to return to God, and our original home, or to choose to go our own way. Jesus died that we might live, Jesus reconciled us to God. Jesus told us to Repent, to exchange our selfish and wilful character, into 1) loving God with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our minds. And 2) love each other, as we love ourselves. ( That means to say and do to others, as we would want others to say, and do to ourselves.) That is not easy, yet we have many years to learn to love selflessly, without any strings attached. Jesus will help us, and guide us all the way. We will have to love God, and love each other, in God`s Kingdom, where LOVE rules, Jersey. Those who choose to go their own wilful way, will end up in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. Hell is reserved for Satan and his followers, for those who do not want to know Love, for those who hate God and all He stands for. Will Heaven be Wonderful? God wants us back, we are told: Whosoever will, may come." I say this humbly and kindly. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[seashale76]

So are you saying God is just sitting back and watching all those non-believers in hell being burned and tortured forever? Would you be able to just sit there and watch all that if you were God? What kind of a God would do that?

If you actually read what I posted in my very first response, you'd have read about the scourge of love. People are tortured by God's love for them and knowing this, feeling it, being in the direct presence of it, causes them to suffer and burn. God doesn't do anything to them, they've done it all to themselves. Those who experience heaven also feel God's love and can withstand His fire because they were tempered.

 

[Jersey]

If you actually read what I posted in my very first response, you'd have read about the scourge of love. People are tortured by God's love for them and knowing this, feeling it, being in the direct presence of it, causes them to suffer and burn. God doesn't do anything to them, they've done it all to themselves. Those who experience heaven also feel God's love and can withstand His fire because they were tempered.

I've heard that before. God doesn't send anyone to hell, people send themselves there. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Hell sounds very cruel and sadistic to me and far from anything loving. You gotta be kidding. No kidding.

 

[kl_lorent]

Christians are always telling me that heaven is an awesome place and that I should accept Jesus as my savior in order to go there after I die. That really sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign?

Does that mean that I will have my own giant throne made of diamonds sitting atop a big green grassy mountain with gorgeous sunsets in every direction?

But what about the people in hell? Will I be mourning for them the whole time I'm in heaven having a great time forever without end? If that's the case then how can anybody enjoy heaven forever and ever while their friends and loved one's are roasting for eternity in pain that will never end?

Heaven might not be that much of a fun place after all right?

Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:4, and Revelation 2:7 all refer to heaven as a place of paradise. So yes, the Christian worldview is that heaven will be a paradise. We can't even really imagine what all will be there or what we'll be doing the whole time but I do know that we will be with God and be able to see Him face to face and worship him for all of eternity. The Bible doesn't say we'll get mansions in heaven, and God is not in the business of trying to have all the latest "attractions" just so people will want to go to heaven. I'm sorry your Christian friends have given you this impression.

For those who have a relationship with Christ the most amazing thing we see about heaven is that we get to finally be with Him face to face. You don't become a Christian just so you can have your "fire insurance," you become a Christian because you believe that Jesus died for your sins and you want to follow Him and live with Him for all of eternity.

Matthew 25:46 does says, ""Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." So we do believe that those who do not have a relationship with Christ will go to hell. Matthew 25:41 says that hell was created for Satan and his demons but since sin entered the picture this has become the place where those who deny Christ also will go. I completely disagree with the idea that hell is actually God's fiery presence. This may have been held by even ancient E. Orthodox Christians but the Bible never portrays this image and I'm fed up with the idea that just because something has been believed for hundreds or even thousands of years that that makes it true. The three in the fiery furnace were miraculously protected by God, this was not hell. No where in the Bible does it say that Heaven is like the fiery furnace or any type of furnace. I just wanted to make it clear that my beliefs are much different from other's on this forum.

Back to your question about whether we'd be mourning those in hell or not...Revelation 7:17 says that "God will wipe away every tear" so even though I don't understand how this could be possible I leave room for God to be a big God like I know He is. I know that in His great love and power He has the ability to do whatever He wants and I trust that He will take all sorrow away one day.

 

[Jersey]

Back to your question about whether we'd be mourning those in hell or not...Revelation 7:17 says that "God will wipe away every tear" so even though I don't understand how this could be possible I leave room for God to be a big God like I know He is. I know that in His great love and power He has the ability to do whatever He wants and I trust that He will take all sorrow away one day.

If God has such great love like so many assert, why did he bother creating hell at all? Why not just create heaven and forgive everyone so we all can live happily ever after in heavenly bliss amen?

I think that's what I would do if I was God, wouldn't you if you were God?

 

[Catherineanne]

Does that mean that I will have my own giant throne made of diamonds sitting atop a big green grassy mountain with gorgeous sunsets in every direction?

The giant diamond throne, with you alone staring at the sunset, is not heaven but hell.

Heaven is being with God, and with the whole company of heaven. Hell is being where they are not.

I personally do not believe what I believe in order to achieve some kind of reward, nor to avoid some kind of punishment. I believe it because it is true to me, and this is the life I choose to live.

You are free to live as you please, also.

 

[Catherineanne]

If God has such great love like so many assert, why did he bother creating hell at all? Why not just create heaven and forgive everyone so we all can live happily ever after in heavenly bliss amen?

God did not create hell; he cannot create a place where he is not, because he is omnipresent. We each one of us create it for ourselves when we say 'there is no God', and then live accordingly.

He is no less there, but we refuse to see him, and by living without him we live in hell.

And what we create for ourselves here, we recreate in eternity. The only people excluded from God's presence will be those who refuse to see that he is there.

 

[Catherineanne]

I've heard that before. God doesn't send anyone to hell, people send themselves there. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Hell sounds very cruel and sadistic to me and far from anything loving. You gotta be kidding. No kidding.

You are still thinking of a lake of fire hell. Hell is being without God. It is possible to live a very comfortable life here on earth, and yet be in hell.

 

[kl_lorent]

God did not create hell; he cannot create a place where he is not, because he is omnipresent. We each one of us create it for ourselves when we say 'there is no God', and then live accordingly.

He is no less there, but we refuse to see him, and by living without him we live in hell.

And what we create for ourselves here, we recreate in eternity. The only people excluded from God's presence will be those who refuse to see that he is there.

Matthew 25:41 says, "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

God created hell for the devil and his angels. Sin entered in, that means that people started choosing Satan's way instead of God's way (and any time you're choosing your one way over God's way then that is the "way" of Satan). So if you go Satan's way, you go where he is.

The reason why I am so madly in love with God is because He didn't have to provide a way for us but He did, He sacrificed His only Son Jesus Christ as a substitute for our sins. He has given freely the gift of eternal life and I have found the greatest joy in accepting it!

 

[Catherineanne]

Matthew 25:41 says, "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

God created hell for the devil and his angels. Sin entered in, that means that people started choosing Satan's way instead of God's way (and any time you're choosing your one way over God's way then that is the "way" of Satan). So if you go Satan's way, you go where he is.

The reason why I am so madly in love with God is because He didn't have to provide a way for us but He did, He sacrificed His only Son Jesus Christ as a substitute for our sins. He has given freely the gift of eternal life and I have found the greatest joy in accepting it!

I have given my answer to the OP. This is not the place for a discussion with you of your concept of hell, or your own personal political manifesto.

 

[Jersey]

You are still thinking of a lake of fire hell. Hell is being without God.

That's odd because someone else in this thread said that God is everywhere and that would include hell. So which is it? Do Christians disagree so much what the bible says?

It is possible to live a very comfortable life here on earth, and yet be in hell.

So one can live a decent moral life and still be sent to hell? That doesn't sound very nice to me. And people wonder why I never became a Christian. If you don't believe, you get sent to hell forever to be tormented forever. And at the same time, people are having a good time in heaven while their loved ones and friends are be tormented in hell. I don't see how they'll be happy in heaven knowing that is going on down there.

 

[ebia]

That's odd because someone else in this thread said that God is everywhere and that would include hell. So which is it? Do Christians disagree so much what the bible says?

The bible doesn't actually say much about "hell", and what it does say is through metaphor, symbol, and convention. Likewise it doesn't say much about "heaven" (in the sense of where people go when they die). What it does say quite a lot about is the New Heavens and New Earth into which all God's people will be one day resurrected.

So long as you talk about heaven vs hell you are discussing something that has much more to do with Dante and Michelangelo than the bible.