Will everyone be saved...

[RGL1]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."


1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe

 

[MadFingerPainter]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
Verses 27–33

The sin of our souls was the troubled of Christ's soul, when he undertook to redeem and save us, and to make his soul an offering for our sin. Christ was willing to suffer, yet prayed to be saved from suffering. Prayer against trouble may well agree with patience under it, and submission to the will of God in it. Our Lord Jesus undertook to satisfy God's injured honour, and he did it by humbling himself. The voice of the Father from heaven, which had declared him to be his beloved Son, at his baptism, and when he was transfigured, was heard proclaiming that He had both glorified his name, and would glorify it. Christ, reconciling the world to God by the merit of his death, broke the power of death, and cast out Satan as a destroyer. Christ, bringing the world to God by the doctrine of his cross, broke the power of sin, and cast out Satan as a deceiver. The soul that was at a distance from Christ, is brought to love him and trust him. Jesus was now going to heaven, and he would draw men's hearts to him thither. There is power in the death of Christ to draw souls to him. We have heard from the gospel that which exalts free grace, and we have heard also that which enjoins duty; we must from the heart embrace both, and not separate them.


1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe
Verses 6–10

Outward acts of self-denial profit little. What will it avail us to mortify the body, if we do not mortify sin? No diligence in mere outward things could be of much use. The gain of godliness lies much in the promise; and the promises to godly people relate partly to the life that now is, but especially to the life which is to come: though we lose for Christ, we shall not lose by him. If Christ be thus the Saviour of all men, then much more will he be the Rewarder of those who seek and serve him; he will provide well for those whom he has made new creatures.

hope this helps.

 

[TruthMiner]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

John 12:32 does not say in the Greek, "all people." It just says "will draw all to myself."

1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe

No, Savior of all men means all men can be saved by this Savior. It does not mean all men will be saved. And that's why it says, "especially of those who believe." They are the ones who will be saved.

 

[RGL1]

hope this helps.

Not really.

 

[RGL1]

John 12:32 does not say in the Greek, "all people." It just says "will draw all to myself

What's the difference?

 

[MadFingerPainter]

my apologies. i don't know greek. ~smiles~ i have an english version of kjv. i somehow see that as enough for me to manage to understand.

 

[Shane Roach]

RGL1,

No, all people are not saved. You need to look at verses that address that subject directly and clearly, and then interpret verses that seem unclear with the proper understanding. The verse you are looking at are not verses to do with damnation, but salvation and some of its traits. If you want to know whether all people will be saved, you need merely look at the verses that speak to people being LOST.

Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire . This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire .
KJV

You will find any number of people to offer you a thousand off the wall interpretations trying to pull you off in the direction of universalism. I can't see into your soul, or know your state with God, but you will be trapsing down a dark path if you indeed are Christ's and you try to shoehorn yourself into that mindset.

The thing that those who believe salvation has to be for everyone do not like to bear in mind is that we are all exceedingly sinful before Christ remakes us, therefore they do not feel hell is a just punishment.

I'm afraid they are simply misleading themselves because the idea is not one they care for.

Find your hope in Christ, not in schemes about universal salvation or feel good theology.

 

[Love321]

The Rich Man and Lazarus (LUKE16)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[jsimms615]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."


1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe

He is the Savior, but some chose to reject Him and will suffer the consequences.

 

[Dondi]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

You may reacll that Jesus said that He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel. But this verse indicates that Jesus will draw not only Jews, but people from all nations of the earth, in fulfillment of the promise of Abraham that from his Seed, all nations of the world shall be blessed.

1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

I believe that this verse speaks of the potential of Christ's sacrifice to save all men, but the application of that salvation is for those who believe

.

 

[zapp]

The Grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to ALL men. [Titus]
God is not willing for any, not even one, to perish.

It is clear what God's will is. Painfully clear. It is clear that the way has been paid for, if you will, for every single human to enter into fellowship with the God who loves the "world" [pretty universal...].

So, the question is, will God's Will be done? I think the jury is still out, and the answer is not clearly given. For me personally, I want to serve King Jesus now... like right now while I've got breath. Woe to the one who rejects a clear understanding of who Jesus is and what he requires.
z

 

[Dondi]

The Grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to ALL men. [Titus]
God is not willing for any, not even one, to perish.

It is clear what God's will is. Painfully clear. It is clear that the way has been paid for, if you will, for every single human to enter into fellowship with the God who loves the "world" [pretty universal...].

So, the question is, will God's Will be done? I think the jury is still out, and the answer is not clearly given. For me personally, I want to serve King Jesus now... like right now while I've got breath. Woe to the one who rejects a clear understanding of who Jesus is and what he requires.
z

So are you saying you believe in universal salvation?

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe

In John 12:32, Jesus was preaching not to just the Jews, but also to Greeks in the crowd (12:20). Jesus was well aware of the servant passages in Isaiah (49) which state that He would be a light to the Gentiles and the savior of the world. So the context means Jesus would draw all kinds of nationalities and ethnic people groups to Him, not that every person in the world would be drawn to Him and saved.

In 1 Timothy 4:10, Paul is not saying all people will be saved. Paul qualified his statement with the phrase especially of those who believe. If Paul was actually a universalist, it wouldn't make any sense for him to first state that everyone is saved, and then state especially the believers are saved.

What Paul was saying was that God has offered salvation to everyone. The salvation offered is through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. No one is excluded from this offer - and it is free. Those who accept it and trust in Jesus become believers. Paul said God is the Savior of all men - because He offers salvation to all in a generic sense. God is especially the Savior of those who believe - because they have received His offer and therefore have the "atonement applied" to them.

Lamorak Des Galis

 

[hlaltimus]

Does this mean all people will be saved?


John 12 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."


1 Timothy 4 [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe

Dondi is correct in that Jesus is currently drawing all kinds of people unto Himself and not Jews only. This was a tough pill for the Jewish people of Christ's day to swallow, but they should have taken more literally God's promises to Abraham and so avoided this clash with the Christ. As for the 1 Timothy 4:10 passage, Jesus is literally the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe! The text may be taken in a full or more universal sense if interpreted as follows: The atonement of Christ covers the sins of all fallen sons and daughters of Adam up to but not beyond an age of accountability without a voluntary acceptance of that atonement thereafter. There are no babies or young children in hell, (all of you mourning parents,) as the atonement was always conditioned by a personal application in the Old Testament for those of maturity, the precious exception being children who were extended this priceless atonement both involuntarily and universally. Judas is not being tormented in Hell for the sin of a polluted nature received at conception or for his early sins of childhood. He should have locked unto Christ as an adult and let all of the silver in the world go. A very poor trade.