Why?

[A-Bomb]

Please help me. I am a new Christian and I am struggling with the Bible, this passage in particular. Why would my loving God do such a thing?

Numbers 31


Vengeance on the Midianites

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."
3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba-the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. [1]
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army-the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds-who returned from the battle.
15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
19 "All of you who have killed anyone or touched anyone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood."
21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, "This is the requirement of the law that the LORD gave Moses: 22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead 23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. 24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp."

 

[Bob Moore]

Hi, A-Bomb.

I have to ask: how much time are you prepared to invest in the study of the the commands of God concerning the peoples of the land?

The short answer is that the Midianites were among those peoples the Israelites were supposed to drive out. But, as was often the case, they didn't do as they were told; they did as they wished. The people Moses ordered killed should have been killed to begin with, but were not. It was they who caused (and would cause) Israel to stumble, and because of that they were condemned, not by Moses, but by God.

If you don't mind I have a little avuncular advice for you. As a new Christian you will find it much more profitable to invest your study time in the instruction of the Gospels and Epistles. Once you have a firm grasp of what the Good News really is, then there will be plenty of time for looking at the ways and means God chose for implementing His plan. I say this because it is very easy to misunderstand why God does the things He does, especially for someone just starting the walk.

 

[Rafael]

Much of the story of the Old Testament and how it pertains to us is allegorical. When the enemy of our soul and sin is encountered in life, we are to not give it any foothold to remain, but vanquish and destroy it entirely. If you read the accounts closely, you will see that Israel did not obey God in many of these battles and the people of the enemy came back to harrass and kill and trouble Israel again. This is how it is with sin in our lives. If we keep it, even a little, it will effect our lives adversely and cause us to suffer the results of sin and its death. Many of these old enemies of Israel are killing the people of the country of Israel, today, as we watch our TV.
God gives life as His own gift, and is able to raise from the dead and give each life all the chance they will ever need to accept His salvation. Children and all peoples belong to Him and to imagine Him unjust by destroying something He has made is not for us to judge Him about. He is able to keep what belongs to Himself and them give it again if it pleases Him. By His nature, He is love and entirely just, and we believe this by faith and His Word. The extreme actions we see in the Old Testament by Israel and God are always those brought on as a result of man's sin and death. Everything comes from God, and even sin and the evil that exists will come into line and bring about good for those that love God and are the called according to His purpose.

Romans 8:Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen

 

[thereselittleflower]

Please help me. I am a new Christian and I am struggling with the Bible, this passage in particular. Why would my loving God do such a thing?


A short answer will not really suffice right now as there is a lot for you to learn about Christianity and the bible . .

But, a basic answer is this . . The Old Testament foreshadows the New Testament, and the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament ..

The passage you quoted can be seen as a foreshadowing of the triumphs of Jesus and the Cross over the demonic realm and sin . .

The Old Testament is full of "types" - foreshadows - of things in the New Testament . . but to understand the types, the foreshadows, you need to first get a basic understanding of the New Testament . . so reading the New Testament first I think is crucial . . a new Christian should not start trying to understand the Old Testament without first understanding the Gospel . .

So I also recommend that you put the Old Testament away for right now and start with the Gospels .. I remember when I first had my conversion experience, I started with Matthew and read my way through the New Testament . . several times before I even thought of tackling the Old Testament . . it works out better that way I believe . .


But to address your concerns a little further .. in the Old Testament God used various nations to carry out His judgement on others . . God is just and good . . . we do not understand everything, but we can trust in God's love and goodness, and that there was a reason He used the Israelites to pass judgement on those other nations in this manner .. we come to not trust our own understanding but to trust God in all things . . .

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and leannotuntothineown understanding.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Trust God to lead you to undestanding . . put this passage on the shelf for now . . later God will give you better understanding of it. . .




Peace in Him!

 

[kiwimac]

To be blunt much of what passes for the "commands of God" in the OT simply reflect the prejudices of the Hebrew people. I do not believe God commanded the slaughter of the Midianites, I DO believe that the Hebrew leaders found it very convenient.

Kiwimac

 

[A-Bomb]

But I am not a very strong Christian; barely one actually, though I long to believe and have great faith. Your anwser seems geared toward people who already have a good, strong understanding of God. I do not. It is hard for me to accept that the loving God I sing of in songs at worship and read of in the New Testament killed thousands of his children and sent them to Hell, to suffer eternally. It doesn't add up. Please help me, if you can.


EDIT: I wrote this reply before I saw all of yours. Thank you for the advice. I have actually been a struggling Christian for around three years, and still can't bring myself to commit and just believe. I am one of those "hands on" people. I need hard evidence. I hate it. Why can't I just take that leap of faith?!

P.S.: I don't want any pity or attention, just your prayers. Thanks.

 

[MinDach]

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

What is Fair? If I was God, I would of never made mankind. If we are made in his Image, then he has the same feeling as we do. I was not there when God made the heavens, or when he placed the sun in the sky, he has not told me how, he made the wind to blow, so why would I judge him for who is to live and who is to die. For we are the Creation, and Not the Creator. We only know this world we live in, it full of hate, love, sickness, death. God made a wonderful plan to bring all men back to the knowledge of him, He had to give his only Son to do it. I call that Love.

 

[Bob Moore]

I am one of those "hands on" people. I need hard evidence. I hate it. Why can't I just take that leap of faith?!

You may think so, but the Bible doesn't. 2 Corinthians 5:7, "we walk by faith, not by sight". Here is a man who walked side by side with Jesus for several years, yet he still had a problem:

John 20:24-29 "But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

The 'hard evidence' you seek comes in the form of a changed heart. Ask yourself how you are different now than you were before. What has changed about your way of thinking? What about your friends? Do you hang with unsaved kids? Have the desires of your heart changed? I could fill the computer with things that change when saving faith is received, but you should get the idea from these few obvious things.

P.S.: I don't want any pity or attention, just your prayers. Thanks.

Speaking of prayer, do you pray for youself?

Look at this passage carefully: Mark 9:23-24 "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." There are a number of applications and teaching points in this passage:

1) "If you believe". Christian assurance and growth come to those who believe, not those who doubt. (general principle)

2)As soon as the man learned that, he burst out in tears before Jesus, (turn to Psalm 51:17, then Psalm 34:18).

3) He admitted his weakness.

4) He knew the one who could turn the weakness into strength.

So if you have a faith problem, and all of us do at one time or another, then you stay in the Lord's ear about it. Others can pray for you in a general way, but your heart knows the specifics, so you have to lead the charge.

 

[Lyle]

Please help me. I am a new Christian and I am struggling with the Bible, this passage in particular. Why would my loving God do such a thing?

A few things to understand. As has been mentioned, almost everything in the Olod testiment is a picture of something in the New; Though can be taken literally, because it is actualy history. God told the Israelites to destory these people because they were

A. In the promised land that God had given to Israel
B. Enemies of God
C. It's a picture, I think, more of the spiritual and how it relates to our lives. God would not share this land with the name of another god, just as in our lives we may come across enemies of sin; God wants us to completely destory these enemies so that we can fully be for Him.

You have to understand, God is loving and is love, yes. But God is also just, which is why Christ needed to die for our sins. And being just, He must punish sin..

But I am not a very strong Christian; barely one actually,

If you are a Christian, you're one 100%, no less at all.

though I long to believe and have great faith.

Keep seeking and it will come to you

It is hard for me to accept that the loving God I sing of in songs at worship and read of in the New Testament killed thousands of his children and sent them to Hell, to suffer eternally.

it runs right along with Him being just, the trip into the promised land was only to take about 11 days, but since their hearts rebelled against God He had to keep them out of the land; For they were not ready to recieve it. In fact, God had to wait for that whole generation to die out, so that the next could be raised for Him and enter into the land. God can never use a heart that is turned away from Him, fully., and never a proud heart (Pride: A self-confident heart). In that generation the children of Israel were drowning in pride... it was not God's will that they should have been in the wilderness that long, it was only by their choice to rebel.. Does that help you out?

 

[A-Bomb]

1) "If you believe". Christian assurance and growth come to those who believe, not those who doubt. (general principle)

But how can I not doubt? It is impossible for me to just "stop doubting".

 

[Bob Moore]

But how can I not doubt? It is impossible for me to just "stop doubting".

That's right. You, all by yourself, can't do anything about the doubts that creep in (By the way, that happens to all of us at one time or another). But what you can do is just what the man in Mark 9 did. Only in your case I suggest that you get off by yourself and tell God about your doubts. He already knows all about them anyway, of course, but He is waiting for you to recognize the problem and come to Him for the solution.

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Do you see anything about yourself in this passage? There are things you do not yet see, and because of them doubts have crept in (and who do you think is responsible for that?). But faith, even when it does not see, says "Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief (weak faith)".

Do you understand what I have just written, or would you like a little more clarification?

 

[Lyle]

the Bible says in james: 'Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

it's not impossible to stop doubting, you need to trust. Do you believe that God is real?

 

[A-Bomb]

Do you believe that God is real?

I'm not sure.

 

[Lyle]

TTha's half the probaly.. The Bible says you're in or you're out.. If you say, "I'm not sure." Then you're saying no. It must be solidly based. What makes you doubt? Maybe we should start here..

 

[Rafael]

But I am not a very strong Christian; barely one actually, though I long to believe and have great faith. Your anwser seems geared toward people who already have a good, strong understanding of God. I do not. It is hard for me to accept that the loving God I sing of in songs at worship and read of in the New Testament killed thousands of his children and sent them to Hell, to suffer eternally. It doesn't add up. Please help me, if you can.


EDIT: I wrote this reply before I saw all of yours. Thank you for the advice. I have actually been a struggling Christian for around three years, and still can't bring myself to commit and just believe. I am one of those "hands on" people. I need hard evidence. I hate it. Why can't I just take that leap of faith?!

P.S.: I don't want any pity or attention, just your prayers. Thanks.

Remember that He redeems that which is already dead spiritually and dying physically. The innocent are judged according to their innocnece, and God has the power to raise from the dead. Trust in Him by faith to do right, and don't waste any effort judging Him for doing something you think or imagine Him doing wrong. If He is able to create and raise any person or life, then let Him handle those things that you have no power over, such as giving life. Understand? You don't have to worry about judging God. It all is His and He knows how to do justice.

 

[Rafael]

I'm not sure.

Seek Him with all your heart and you will find Him. He is in everything that lives, and no man can make life. Pray an honest prayer for Him to open your eyes. I had to do that. I just told Him the truth - that I didn't know how to believe in Him and that if He were real, to please help me know Him. If you are listening to lying spirits, rebuke them in Jesus name and get away from the source of the lies, as best you can. I hope you get stronger in faith real soon, as we have no guarantee of tomorrow. May the Lord bless you.

 

[MinDach]

But how can I not doubt? It is impossible for me to just "stop doubting".

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Even if you only have a little faith, it can grow, and become Great. We all start out with doubt. Until God opens our eyes. Then we see ,what we never saw before.

 

[Rafael]

I'm not sure.

Hello again, A-bomb......Another thing I did that got big results to help me grow in faith was to get a modern English translation of the Bible's New Testament, and I read it after prayng for God to help me know Him. I guess we are really only serious when we are willing to put in a little work of our own in getting to know Him by His Word, left to us and preserved by Him, for us through history. When we read it for ourselves and study it, it is difficult for someone else to tell us lies, and we don't have to listen to hearsay about what the scriptures contain. Jesus said that His words were spirit and life, and they become alive in us.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

 

[SelahCrys]

A-Bomb,

Read this verse, it is from the Message bible, so that you can understand real clearly what God is asking you:

Job 40:8 "Do you presume to tell me what I'm doing wrong? Are you calling me a sinner so you can be a saint? MSG

I do not know of any religion in the world, where a person is allowed to judge God.

First you must make a decision that God is in charge and He is the one who sets the standards, the moral compass, the rules and that He himself is never subject to what you want.

Imagine if I called Walmart, Microsoft or Macy's and told them to give the president of the company this message: "I do not think you have made the right choices for your customers, I do not think you are a very nice person, You even had the nerves to remove from your store those who did not want your product or who broke stuff in your store. By the way, can you meet me at my house at 8 am in the morning, because I am not sure you are even real."

Do you think or even imagine that you would find the presidents of any of those company's at your door step at 8 am?

It is not a surprise that God does not talk to you.

God avoids the proud. He is always with the humble.

Humble yourself and repent of your pride, then God will show up and remove all doubt.

Do not take this post the wrong way, it is given in love.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

 

[A-Bomb]

Thanks guys.