Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I agree.God does the choosing NOT man.
Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter 3. Of Gods Eternal Decree.
1. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;a yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.c
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28.
2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,a yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.b
a. 1 Sam 23:11-12; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18.
3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angelsa are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.b
a. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. b. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6.
4. These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.a
a. John 13:18; 2 Tim 2:19.
5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory,a out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;b and all to the praise of his glorious grace.c
a. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. c. Eph 1:6, 12.
6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, fore-ordained all the means thereunto.a Wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,b are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,c and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.d Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.e
a. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. b. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. c. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. d. 1 Pet 1:5. e. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19.
7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.a
a. Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.
8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,a that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.b So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;c and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.d
a. Deut 29:29; Rom 9:20. b. 2 Pet 1:10. c. Rom 11:33; Eph 1:6. d. Luke 10:20; Rom 8:33; 11:5-6, 20; 2 Pet 1:10.
Why did Foghorn post this question and others did not?
Hey brother!
I just thought I would try to find out the degree to which you believe God directly causes your actions.
Why did you commit the last sin that you committed and others did not?
Blessings.
I will give this a try, God stopped them from sinning, and in his free-will made a choice to not stop me and I am in process of learning from that sin and God is glorified in the whole process.
Because he chooses to be so (glorified), allways all the time and in every thing he is .
How did I do?
gmm4j said:Eddie,
What do you think? According to many, God decreed to "permit" the Fall. Do you think He actually decreed the Fall , or did He only allow room "permit" for sin and the Fall? Do you see a difference?
Blessings.
Yep, I agree.He decreed to permit it. The gospel was the plan from the very beginning.
Because he though of it while others did not.Why did Foghorn post this question and others did not?
It will take much more then a simple answer to a simple question, no?Hey brother!
I just thought I would try to find out the degree to which you believe God directly causes your actions.
I was subject to certain temptations, while others were not at that particular time. Struggling against the three enemies surely didn't help.Why did you commit the last sin that you committed and others did not?
God's ways are to great for me, I cannot even try and say I understand all the details of His working with man.Okay, I believe that too, but I want to press your understanding of "permit" a little bit. God could have said within Himself, "I want Adam to sin, so I will effectively cause him to sin by withdrawing the grace that would keep him from sinning." Did He do that? Or, did He say something like this within Himself... "I will give Adam the grace and ability to choose to obey me, or not. He will choose to disobey and I will permit it." What I'm ultimately trying to get to is, Does "permit" remove God from being the direct cause of sin?
Okay, I believe that too, but I want to press your understanding of "permit" a little bit. God could have said within Himself, "I want Adam to sin, so I will effectively cause him to sin by withdrawing the grace that would keep him from sinning." Did He do that? Or, did He say something like this within Himself... "I will give Adam the grace and ability to choose to obey me, or not. He will choose to disobey and I will permit it." What I'm ultimately trying to get to is, Does "permit" remove God from being the direct cause of sin?
Fair enoughHey Foghorn (you are in red),
Who are we to council God? I have no more to say on this.
My understanding does not reach beyond what I already said, so I will not venture any further, it is not safe there. We have a holy God and we should treat Him as such. Other then what He reveals, His ways are unknowable.
I respect this stance and agree. I was just exploring to see if you had drawn any conclusions or leaned in a particular direction. It is true, we can't (shouldn't) be dogmatic where God has chosen to leave some degree of ambiguity.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?