Why would an atheist come to Christ, if not to avoid hell?

FreeinChrist · Jan 2, 2013

MOD HAT

This is an Apologetics thread so it is being moved to Exploring Christianity

Munising · Jan 2, 2013

According to the Bible, there is obviously no hell. If God is loving, then he wouldn't send anyone to a hell.

MikeBigg · Jan 4, 2013

I didn't read the whole thread, so don't know if its been mentioned - the question in the original post: Why would an atheist come to Christ, if not to avoid hell?

I love the verse in Romans that says it is the kindness of God that draws men to repentance. God can and does show kindness to atheists. This kindness draws some to Him.

That's not fear as a motive to turn to God, but the response to His kindness and love.

The way we all should have turned to God.

Regards,

Mike

seeking Christ · Jan 4, 2013

Let's re-name this thread, why would anyone come to Christ, if not for the kindness of God?

JGG · Jan 4, 2013

MikeBigg said:
I didn't read the whole thread, so don't know if its been mentioned - the question in the original post: Why would an atheist come to Christ, if not to avoid hell?

I love the verse in Romans that says it is the kindness of God that draws men to repentance. God can and does show kindness to atheists. This kindness draws some to Him.

That's not fear as a motive to turn to God, but the response to His kindness and love.

The way we all should have turned to God.

Regards,

Mike

In what way, for example, would you say that God is kind?

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

MikeBigg said:
I didn't read the whole thread, so don't know if its been mentioned - the question in the original post: Why would an atheist come to Christ, if not to avoid hell?

I love the verse in Romans that says it is the kindness of God that draws men to repentance. God can and does show kindness to atheists. This kindness draws some to Him.

That's not fear as a motive to turn to God, but the response to His kindness and love.

The way we all should have turned to God.

Regards,

Mike

Wll the issue is that an athest doesnt believe any of that it would be purely bet hedging in order to try to end up in the best place. Because the athiest doesnt believe they cant actually accept god and this would imply a lack if understanding their self and integrity.

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

seeking Christ said:
Let's re-name this thread, why would anyone come to Christ, if not for the kindness of God?

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed... may not perish...

"Sinners in the Hands of an angry God"

Christianity is very much about hell and so has been methods used to spread the gospel. The gospel is very much about Gods love hell and escape are equally there. Probably the most popular form of apologetics is argument for which is better be wrong about... this isnt love of god its fear of hell.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

2 questions: should you be posting in this sub-forum? If you don't consider yourself a Christian, the answer to that becomes no unless it's a thread you started. Did you just quote from a book, or merely mention the title? Either way, that book has encountered vehement resistance from the Church, decried as outright falsehood, and worse.

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

I wanted to tell you something, I wasn't weighing in on the discussion and I don't plan to address the OP.

I didn't quote anything except the bible and I just gave the title of a literary work that has become a classic and has not been opposed by the church in general, I've seen it praised also. I just thought your consideration of the gospel working in people was a little off.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

Ok well maybe a private comment intended for me but not the OP, would be better done via PM? I'll point out that the book you mention has been well received in very specific circles, those influenced by Calvin, and rejected outside of those circles.

It might prove interesting to examine how much of your own views on Christianity were influenced by Calvin, and to do the same thing with our OP?

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

I've considered all that before, Calvin did and taught some truly terrible things but no, there are scriptures I object to. That book isn't just appreciated by Reformed Theology. I learned about it in the public school system and at my own church and my church was definitely not Calvinist.

Jesus himself said in John 3.16 that his purpose of coming was to save us from perishing (hell) and the famous argument about it being better to be wrong as a Christian than be wrong as a non-believer is based entirely on that same idea.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

Lee M said:
That book isn't just appreciated by Reformed Theology. I learned about it in the public school system and at my own church and my church was definitely not Calvinist.

Ok, what Church? Howe did you learn about this book in school? I'm trusting it was mentioned by a peer, rather than taught by a teacher?

Lee M said:
Jesus himself said in John 3.16 that his purpose of coming was to save us from perishing (hell) and the famous argument about it being better to be wrong as a Christian than be wrong as a non-believer is based entirely on that same idea.

I'm unfamiliar with said "famous argument" Maybe it's ill founded?

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

You've never heard of Pascal's Wager? It is one of the most famous arguments for belief and it's been around for a very long time. It's been around since the 1600's. Look it up and it's still used a lot today. I do think it's very ill founded.

The writing was reviewed in a high school class as part of the curricula because it was a well known work, not for it's content. I don't want to go into what church I attended but it definitely did not adhere to Calvin's doctrines and what I have said I can take directly from the bible in very simple statements.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

Lee M said:
what I have said I can take directly from the bible in very simple statements.

Maybe that's the problem, basing doctrine on proof texts and sound bytes, rather than the whole of Scripture

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

Nope, it's a resounding theme, made of simple statements.

That I need Jesus Christ to forgive me and redeem me of my sins or I will go to hell, because Adam and Eve sinned, I've "sinned" and the wages of sin is death and few people will find this salvation.

You can't deny that is the message of the bible.

My position is that that's the most terrible story ever told, it's horrifying. I am not a evil person, I am not bad and I will never deserve to be in a place like hell, no one does and I will never ever teach my children those terrible ideas, I refuse to ever let them learn that they are sinners who need to be redeemed and need forgiveness or they face torture or destruction.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

Well if you truly weren't influenced by Calvin, you were influenced by Dante

Lee M · Jan 5, 2013

Have you ever actually read the bible?

Lilly Owl · Jan 5, 2013

JGG said:
"If Hell is not eternal and not a place of punishment eternally, then Jesus dying on the cross was in vain. There was no reason for Him to take away the sins of the world.

Why then would an atheist come to Christ if there was no punishment, no penalty for breaking God's law?"

This is a question among many, put forth by a Christian elsewhere on the board.

Discuss...

I think such a question answers the question about free will. I.e. there is none.
To ask why else would an atheist come to Jesus if not to avoid Hell, is to imply God blackmails the soul to either enter glory or suffer horribly, for not believing in him.
The impetus being the deficit of being born hell bound first as a sinner. The duty then to amend that condition by seeking to be saved from that destiny, by finding one's way to Jesus.
The proposition , the either or, being orchestrated in it's entirety by a Sovereign God. Whom the Bible says, predestined everything according to his will prior to our even being born.

So, if the atheist doesn't find their way to Jesus, God has already insured they'll see Hell simply because the atheist, through no fault of their own, was born destined for the place. And God decreed the only way to save themselves from that fate, a place he created, is to believe in him that created it, while asking to be redeemed from what he created us to be first; sinners.

Everyone is born atheist.
And everyone is born a sinner.

God asked that we have faith we can overcome that by believing in him and redeeming ourselves from what he let us be born to be. And yet, we can still sin, even though Jesus' death was to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross.

Interesting question, this thread.
Poses a lot more questions right from the start.

seeking Christ · Jan 5, 2013

Lee M said:
Have you ever actually read the bible?

Yes, and studied most of it. I have yet to encounter you making any statement pertaining to it that I can lend credence to. Since you seem to be washing your mind of everything connected to your understanding of it, I applaud you.

Lee M · Jan 6, 2013

Seeking Christ

I want to end this conversation while it's still positive because I am beginning to get upset.

It was nice chatting with you.

Why would an atheist come to Christ, if not to avoid hell?

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Since when is God's adversary a curse word here?

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