Why was the Veil Rent?

disciple Clint · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
There were two veils. Why would you suppose that it wasn't the outer veil that was rent?

where do you see two veils inside the temple?

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

disciple Clint said:
where do you see two veils inside the temple?

(CLV) Hb 9:3
Now after the second curtain is a tabernacle which is termed the holy of holies,

Only Priests were allowed behind the first curtain.

Only the High Priest was allowed behind the second.

(CLV) Hb 9:7
yet into the second, the chief priest only, once a year, not apart from blood, which he is offering for himself and the errors of the people,

If the second veil was rent, only the Priests would have known.

disciple Clint · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
(CLV) Hb 9:3
Now after the second curtain is a tabernacle which is termed the holy of holies,

Only Priests were allowed behind the first curtain.

Only the High Priest was allowed behind the second.

(CLV) Hb 9:7
yet into the second, the chief priest only, once a year, not apart from blood, which he is offering for himself and the errors of the people,

If the second veil was rent, only the Priests would have known.

Hebrews 9:3 - Meaning and Commentary on Bible Verse

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
Many had direct access to a relationship with YHWH before that. What separated those who didn't?

Faith.

HARK! said:
It was their sin. Yahshua takes away sin. He doesn't sweep it under the carpet. He takes it out of the house.

David was a sinner.
David had access by way of the Anointing.
We have access by the same Spirit, by Faith.
Romans 9:
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

David, like Abraham, believed in the promises given.
He believed in the One who can take away sin.
Psalm 51:
1 Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight—
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me hear joy and gladness,
That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
9 Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give. You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

ozso · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
The physical evidence refutes this article.

http://www.qumran.fr/images/PDF/DeJonge_1988.pdf

This scripture was found at Betharaba, the dwelling place of the Zadok Priesthood, after they were expelled form the Temple. The Zadokites were charged by YHWH to teach and preserve his word.

According to whom?

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
3 And ye shall deal lawlessly to-
gether with Israel, so He shall not
bear with Jerusalem because of your
wickedness; but the veil of the
temple shall be rent, so as not to
cover your shame.

Don't you see that the same rending of the veil
that exposed the shame of those who were unfaithful,
also reveals the Grace now available for those who
believe and commit their trust to the One who will
judge the secrets of our heart?
Romans 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches,
He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
Faith

I suppose the you mean emunah.

Isaiah 59:2

Complete Jewish Bible

Rather, it is your own crimes
that separate you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he doesn’t hear.

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
I suppose the you mean emunah.

I quoted Paul, so I suppose that is what He meant.
Your point?

HARK! said:
Rather, it is your own crimes
that separate you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he doesn’t hear.

The Remedy?

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
Don't you see that the same rending of the veil
that exposed the shame of those who were unfaithful,

Of course. Levi makes that perfectly clear. Maybe you missed it.

3 And ye shall deal lawlessly to-
gether with Israel, so He shall not
bear with Jerusalem because of your
wickedness; but the veil of the
temple shall be rent, so as not to
cover your shame.

Minister Monardo said:
also reveals the Grace now available for those who
believe and commit their trust to the One who will
judge the secrets of our heart?

Now available? Chen is nothing new.

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
I quoted Paul, so I suppose that is what He meant.
Your point?

Perhaps this will help:

The Coming of Faith

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
The Remedy?

It has been the same all along. The prophets told us, and Yahshua told us with the first words of his ministry.

(CLV) Mk 1:15
saying that "Fulfilled is the era, and near is the kingdom of God! Repent, and believe in the evangel!"

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
Of course. Levi makes that perfectly clear. Maybe you missed it.

The only one who missed anything was you not
recognizing this statement of Levi as a half truth.

Minister Monardo said:
Don't you see that the same rending of the veil
that exposed the shame of those who were unfaithful,
also reveals the Grace now available for those who
believe and commit their trust to the One who will
judge the secrets of our heart?

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
It has been the same all along. The prophets told us, and Yahshua told us with the first words of his ministry.

(CLV) Mk 1:15
saying that "Fulfilled is the era, and near is the kingdom of God! Repent, and believe in the evangel!"

So then what is the point of your thread?
the rending of the veil not only reveals guilt
and shame, but also a superabounding grace
that removes the guilt and shame.
What does the DSS teach that we don't already
know from the scriptures quoted from Hebrews 9
and 10, Isaiah and the Psalms?
You cannot see it if the veil is not removed from
your heart, that has been made clear.

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
Perhaps this will help:

The Coming of Faith

@HARK!
No thanks, I already responded to that thread. In fact,
Mine is the only response. I await yours, in sincerity and in the truth of the scriptures to which we are answerable.

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
Of course. Levi makes that perfectly clear. Maybe you missed it.

3 And ye shall deal lawlessly to-
gether with Israel, so He shall not
bear with Jerusalem because of your
wickedness; but the veil of the
temple shall be rent, so as not to
cover your shame.

Now available? Chen is nothing new.

And yet it is without efficacy if not received,
by faith. Faith in the One Who came and made
"all things new". Nothing doubting.

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
You cannot see it if the veil is not removed from
your heart, that has been made clear.

I don't understand your question.

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
@HARK!
No thanks, I already responded to that thread. In fact,
Mine is the only response. I await yours, in sincerity and in the truth of the scriptures to which we are answerable.

I felt no need to respond to a wall of random verses, which did not pertain to the study of the word emunah; but that is not the topic of this thread.

Minister Monardo · Sep 21, 2022

HARK! said:
I felt no need to respond to a wall of random verses, which did not pertain to the study of the word emunah; but that is not the topic of this thread.

So what made you think inviting me to return
to that thread would be helpful?
You do realize that in so doing, the conditions
for being on the subforum are met.
I have signed and ackowledged the statement
of purpose a half dozen times. You always send
me back there when the "wall of random verses"
refute your contentions. And yet, you claim to
"try to be impartial". I am leaving the Subforum
now, you can stop evading my responses.

HARK! · Sep 21, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
So what made you think inviting me to return
to that thread would be helpful?
You do realize that in so doing, the conditions
for being on the subforum are met.
I have signed and ackowledged the statement
of purpose a half dozen times. You always send
me back there when the "wall of random verses"
refute your contentions. And yet, you claim to
"try to be impartial". I am leaving the Subforum
now, you can stop evading my responses.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread.

Blade · Sep 21, 2022

Did we search into Rachel Elior at all? I did I don't agree on some of her theories that many reject.. maybe share that. Just what do they disagree with? Those that disagree they have a reason. So she's right yet others are wrong? I think those that disagree have like her earned the right to be listened to if were digging into this. That's just what some of this is (theory) and that is not fact or truth. Calling the word of God "unbiblical" on a Christian site..well anyway. The way this is going then this is just as true "there are people in this world some would say are not real Jews".

See the thing is Yeshua/Jesus Christ? Yeah He's real. We can simply search and find out side the Word of God people wrote about what happen that day How wide, thick it was.. they describe it. Like again so much of this that also can be just tossed out not believed.

Praise God thanks for sharing I just disagree

Why was the Veil Rent?

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