Why was the Veil Rent?

HARK! said:

Many had direct access to a relationship with YHWH before that. What separated those who didn't?

It was their sin. Yahshua takes away sin. He doesn't sweep it under the carpet. He takes it out of the house.

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OK looks like we need to start at understanding the purpose of the veil. It separated the Holy of Holies where God dwelt from everyone except the High Priest provided he was without sin. No one else could enter there and live. God was separated from everyone, when Jesus died He atoned for the sins of man and restored the relationship that Adam had with God, now we can all have a full relationship with God. Would you agree with that? Would you then also agree that the tearing of the Veil could be a symbolic representation of the fact that man is no longer separated from God? Now that answer does not have to be the only answer as with many things in Theology there are other meanings as well.

HARK! said:

Most of Christianity subscribes to the Pharisee Canon

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The Canon the church fathers settled on was in response to their own seeking together before God.

Hebrews 9 and 10 explains the new and living way we have to enter into the Holyplace - no longer through a physical curtain. This physical curtain was rent indicating the end of the 'shadow'

HARK! said:

Are you suggesting that anyone doesn't subscribe to the Canon of the "church fathers" of your choosing aren't part of the church?

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Who said that ?

HARK! said:

However those chapters make no mention of the veil being rent, nor why?

I'll take fulfilled prophetic scripture over your speculation in hindsight.

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I'll take the whole of scripture to understand matters - not delve into Pseudepigrapha...

Since when is the message of scripture speculation ??

HARK! said:

You have presented no evidence that it is pseudepigrapha. The Zadokites (YHWH's appointed keepers of the scripture, not your church fathers) have provided us with copies that date back to that of any other copies of any other scripture. I could make the same false claim about any scripture. That wouldn't make it so.

Again, I don;t limit myself to the Pharisee Canon. Neither did my Messiah.

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

Scripture? What scripture might that be? I challenge you to search the Pharisee Canon to show me where this can be found in scripture.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

1 Enoch 15:5-7:

5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

Most Christians call the book pseudepigrapha.

Yahshua calls it scripture.

The Zadokites preserved this book too.



Your message was not within the scripture that you provided to support it. Let's not mince words. This is your message, your speculation. It's not scripture.

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That is a bit rich...

I bring conclusions after much study of what is generally considered scripture. That is not speculation.

You bring speculation from extraneous writings that are not accepted as scripture - let the reader understand...

Have a great day.

How do you justify calling the Canon of scripture established by the Church Fathers 'Pharisaical' ???

How is the ripping of the temple curtain by God not a desecration signifying the end of a failed priesthood ?

I note it is generally accepted that the reason for the writings you quote as not being inspired scripture is because their theology elevates the priesthood above the Kingdom.

That seems to be the message you are trying to bring...

Please forgive me if I misunderstand.

HARK! said:

I have heard Christians come up with all sorts of reasons for why the veil was rent. I even came up with my own speculation.

However, there was no need to speculate. Levi told us why.

THE TESTAMENT OF LEVI

CHAPTER 10
1 Now, therefore, observe whatso-
ever I command you, children; for
whatsoever things I have heard from
my fathers rl have declared unto
you.

2 And behold, I am clear from your
ungodliness and transgression,
which ye shall commit in the end of
the ages against the Saviour of the
world, Christ, acting godlessly, de-
ceiving Israel, and stirring up
against it great evils from the Lord.

3 And ye shall deal lawlessly to-
gether with Israel, so He shall not
bear with Jerusalem because of your
wickedness; but the veil of the
temple shall be rent, so as not to
cover your shame.

4 And ye shall be scattered as cap-
tives among the Gentiles, and shall
be for a reproach and for a curse
there.

5 For the house which the Lord
shall choose shall be called Jerus-
alem, as is contained in the book of
Enoch the righteous.

Full text of "The Testament Of Levi.pdf (PDFy mirror)"

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John 2:1921, says, “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

But he spake of the temple of his body.” Jesus’ prophecy concerning the pride of the Jewish nation and the destruction of the temple inspired the most intense rejection of His teaching. Here are some high points of this truth: “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38). “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down” (Matthew 24:1, 2). “We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands” (Mark 14:58).

“And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom” (Mark 15:38). And even as Jesus hung on the cross, His mockers reminded Him of His teachings. “Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross” (Matthew 27:40). But of course, Jesus was not speaking of rebuilding the physical temple. He built the spiritual temple on Himself and the physical was no longer needed ... the final sacrifice for all for all time had come.

He now ministers from the heavenly temple (the real one).

Acts 17:24

The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

Hebrews 9:24

For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Hebrews 9:11

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

Hebrews 8:2
a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Hebrews 8:5

who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”

HARK! said:

However those chapters make no mention of the veil being rent, nor why?

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Why is it necessary that it be mentioned there?
It does make mention of what the veil represents.

Hebrews 10:
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh.

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you,
You must be born again.

He has made the acceptable sacrifice for sin and
for uncleanness. Flesh and blood cannot inherit
the kingdom of God. 1Corinthians 15:50
We now can DRAW NEAR, coming before the
throne without first offering any animal sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:
8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.
9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience.
Not just a removal of sin, but of guilt.
John 13:
7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”
What do we know now, that was not known then?
What understanding do you have of this washing
that night?
8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

John 13:
9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not only my feet,
but also my hands and my head!”
10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.
John 15:
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood.

What must we do to enter the holy of holies?
John 13:
14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.
16 Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.
17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.
Matthew 5:
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

The washing of the feet is symbolic of forgiving one
another, even as the High Priest gained forgiveness
on the day of Atonement by washing the Lord's feet.

Hebrews 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3:
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

The veil represents not only the flesh, but the carnal
minded nature that "veils the eyes" such that those
who are "in the flesh" cannot see Christ in the Word.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The holy of holies represents the secret place
of the heart of man.
This is the conclusion of the matter.
2 Corinthians 3:
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled faces, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.

HARK! said:

The Priesthood continued to function after that day; and James instructed Paul to make sacrifices there many years after the fact.

Clearly the renting of the veil was not the end. James and Paul knew better than that.

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Hebrews 9:
8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.

It no longer stands, nor is it necessary.

HARK! said:

3 And ye shall deal lawlessly to-
gether with Israel, so He shall not
bear with Jerusalem because of your
wickedness; but the veil of the
temple shall be rent, so as not to
cover your shame.

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Isaiah 54:4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

Hearts cleansed from an evil conscience
Hebrews 3:
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Our hearts laid open before Him as showbread.
Acts 11:23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.

Removal of the guilt and shame brings
boldness and confidence to enter His Presence
1 Peter 2:6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes in Him will
by no means be put to shame.

Isaiah 50:
7 For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

10 Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.

Romans 2:
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.