Why was the punishment for sin so harsh ?

Door · Aug 27, 2007

It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice. We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them. He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation. It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

Robinsegg · Sep 7, 2007

Okay, I'm gonna try to take these questions the best I can:

He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation.

God knew they would sin, yes. However, do we praise a child for staying with us when they're infants and can't get away, or when we're holding tightly to their hands? No. Do we feel more loved by that child that stayed with us? No. Love cannot be forced, nor can obedience. Without something forbidden, obedience would have been robotic, not chosen. God wanted a relationship with humans, not robots to command.

We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them

I see no evidence that God didn't forgive them. However, there were still consequences. In this case, the consequence was that sin and selfishness, wanting to do things our way and not God's way, entered into the human experience. Adam and Eve couldn't teach their children perfection because they were no longer perfect. I think that answers the rest of your statements, too.
God gave A&E a choice . . . to obey out of love or not. They chose not. That separated them from God forever. They could not bridge the gap they caused between them and God. Without daily communion with God (it says that they literally walked together before the fall) they could not remain holy and teach their children to be friends with God as they had been.
Oh, and the consequences of the Fall were not just on humanity, but on all Creation, over which we (humans) were given dominion. Thus, Adam had to work to get food from the ground, unpleasantness came into being (I consider much of the thorns, stinging insects, and like that to be products of the Fall) and people began to age.
Rachel

TheOrthodoxOne · Sep 11, 2007

Door said:
It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice. We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them. He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation. It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

There is nothing unjust about this. God made it known what they could eat,which was everything except that which came off of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were made aware of what the consequence was if they did eat; death. And so they ate and died, and the rest of humanity with them from then on.

0n3 · Oct 18, 2007

God gave humanity free will to make love a possibility. God is Holy and disobedience/rebellion against Him cannot remain in His presence. The punishment is not too harsh. It would have been unreasonable if God had not informed Adam and Eve of the consequences, but He did inform them. He told them they would die if they ate from the tree. They brought the punishment upon themselves, along with the rest of humanity. If you speed, and a policeman gives you a ticket, that is not unreasonable--you knew the rules and you broke them anyway. You decided the risk was worth the punishment. Now if you speed, get pulled over, and then the policeman gives you a ticket, but then he says that if you ask him to pay it for you, he will--that would be even more unreasonable. He would not be required to exhibit any mercy toward you. But this is really what Jesus did for us. His act of taking our punishment is really something that does not fit the crime.

prayergal · Oct 21, 2007

Do you think that if Adam and Eve would not have sinned that nobody else would have? God wanted us to love him because we wanted to not because we were forced to. It was all about choices and tests. God tested Adam and Eve's love by putting a choice. They did not choose God. And that is the choice that all of us have.

Kogenta · Nov 30, 2007

Personally, I think God just wanted to see for Himself, even though He already knew that Adam and Eve would sin, but He was possibly hoping that maybe they might do the opposite and actually be obedient. Still, God knew everything before it happened and because of Adam and Eve not being obedient we now must pay the price because we're descended from them. I think that God made no mistake, and just be thankful that He didn't just say "You know what? I'm just going to eradicate all humans right here and now since you won't listen to me". Think about those words for a little while.

tturt · Dec 1, 2007

Did you know that the sacrifices were for unintentional sins ([FONT=&quot]Num 15:25, 28)[/FONT]? I just learned that and I'm thinking - whoa, wonder about intentional sins! Helped me realize how Yahweh looks at any sin.

chrisjalender · Dec 2, 2007

Amen!

TheOrthodoxOne said:
There is nothing unjust about this. God made it known what they could eat,which was everything except that which came off of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were made aware of what the consequence was if they did eat; death. And so they ate and died, and the rest of humanity with them from then on.

CShephard53 · Dec 10, 2007

Door said:
It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice. We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them. He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation. It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

God doesn't want zombies. He wants people to make the right decision. No one is going to want to unless there's a punishment to fit the crime- which is infinite. Because the crime (ultimately helping people make the wrong choice by your own sinfulness) is infinite, so must be the punishment.

Lulav · Dec 11, 2007

There is only one G-d, and creator of all. He gave one specific instruction in that lovely garden, they had everything they needed, food, companionship, and the most beautiful place to live anyone's ever seen, and the most important thing, love, a direct relationship with G-d.

They really had no need or want of anything, yet they were tempted to have more. Doesn't that still happen to us today? G-d gives us shelter, clothes, food, family, and yet we always want more.

They wanted to be like G-d, having all his knowledge, but with knowledge goes responsibility. He wanted them to come to him for whatever they needed, yet they wanted to be independent from him, and thus pushed him away. How many times do we do that today even?

Yes, the punishment was death, at that time it was spiritual and later on it was physical. The punishment was death because that is what they choose.

He said, from the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat.

But many, just like Adam and Eve, ignore what else he said.

9 The Lord God caused to grow out of the ground every tree pleasing in appearance and good for food, including the tree of life in the midst of the garden, as well as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The one tree brought Life the other , the L-RD said, would bring death. They choose the one that would bring death.

They choose.

Today he still asks us to Choose LIFE! ( Deut 30:19)

bliz · Dec 27, 2007

Door said:
It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice.

From a human perspective, it seems like that. However, we have to remember that what matters is God's perspective. God is Holy. There is no sin in Him and so any sin is an abomination to Him and one small sin can destroy any fellowship we have with God.

We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did...

Oh, how I wrestled with that one! I didn't eat the fruit! I could have obeyed that rule! Just because stupid Adam and Eve did does not mean I would have done so!

Except that I would have. All humans, if placed in the Garden, would sooner or later have eaten the fruit. A friend asked me if I obeyed all of my parents rules, and I admitted that I did not. "Well," she went on "Do you have days when you obey all of them?" I thought of my rotten attitude toward a sibling and the little ways I would enrage him, and the ways in which I worked my way around rules, clearly not abiding by the spirit of the law. No, I did not have sinless days. Slowly it began to dawn on me that I was Eve - we all are Adam or Eve and we all would have eaten. "In Adam's fall,we sinned all."

and why could God not just forgive them.

Along with the advent of sin, God created a remedy for sin, first by Old Testament law, and later, through the blood and body of Christ.

He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation.

He knew that we (Adam and Eve, You and I) would sin, but we did not know that. We needed the proof, if you will, that we cannot obey God's rules. You and I would be arguing with God, "Come on! I didn't have a chance, put me in the garden, and you'll see, I won't eat the fruit!"

It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

Which brings us back to the nature of God, sinless perfection, and the nature of humans, sinful screwups.

jwp · Mar 31, 2008

Those are very good questions. God says in his word that "My ways are not your ways, neither are my thoughts your thoughts". Indeed we as parents of a child that would eat fruit from a tree we told them not to, most likely wouldn't punish them with death. But could it be that it had to happen this way as a type and shadow of what was to come.

When Jesus came to earth he was lifted up on a tree. Could it have been the attempt of restoration of the Tree of Life that had been removed in the Garden? Anyway he was rejected in exactly the same way that Adam and Eve rejected the instruction 'Not to eat'...

Why do we all have to pay? Most likely because God could have, if he wanted to do this, he could have created us as a bunch of robots that do whatever he wanted. Instead he created us with free wills so that he would know who wanted to dwell with him once the judgement comes. Death is a consequence of the inability to stand in the presence of perfection without being burned up. Note that when Moses asked to see God it wasn't possible, why? Because it would have destroyed him. So just like we had to pass through our own mother's womb to enter this world (BTW a traumatic event), we will have to (through death) pass through this life into the next. For those that believe, unto righesousness to those that don't unto condemnation. Is this harsh or is it justice? I prefer to see it as justice.

agooddog · Apr 21, 2008

Ok, you acknowledge that God knew all along that they would eat the fruit. Go back a little, and God was the one that made Adam and Eve from mud.

When God was making Adam and Eve, what was He thinking? He knows everything, He knew that when He created these creatures this particular way, He would get these certain results. Why did He go through with it, and was actually angered when it happened?

Lulav · Apr 22, 2008

Where does it say he was angry?

Gracchus · Apr 22, 2008

Door said:
It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice.

At the time that the Genesis myth was promulgated, human life was short, brutish, and nasty. (For most, it still is.) Those in power were cruel, greedy, and intolerant. (For the most part, they still are.)
People have always used the powerful as models for the gods they design. (Those in power are fairly representative of the race.) As H.L. Mencken put it, "God created man in his own image, and man being a gentleman returned the complement." So their gods were cruel, jealous, stupid, ignorant, egotistical, and selfish.

We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them. He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation. It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

The folks who wrote the bible had to explain why the good suffer along with the wicked. So they made up stories.

Mister_Al · Jul 31, 2008

God told Adam that if he ate of that fruit he would surely die. Adam did eat the fruit and God had to keep His word. If God hadn't kept His word then that would have made Him a liar, and we all know that God can't lie.

Alan

Jpark · Oct 13, 2008

O man, who are you to reply against God? (Rom. 9:20)

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts." (Is. 55:8, 9)

Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? (Rom. 3:5, 6)

A Brother In Christ · Oct 18, 2008

Door said:
It just seems like the one sin of Adam and Eve , that lead to the fall of human kind is not justice. We did not make that choice Adam and Eve did, and why could God not just forgive them. He knew they where going to sin, why did he put the tree there as a temptation. It just seems that the punishment does not fit the crime.

He did.... gen 3:21

But every man must believe the present promise to get faith

1 cor 1:18... lost of people believe their works save... but it does not

Echetus · Dec 1, 2008

Well, it doesn't say anywhere that man was perfect before the fall. We had free will from the beginning and imperfection from the beginning (if we had perfection then why did we eat from the tree?). God knew what the outcome would be of his creation. I think of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as a representation of our choice to either know Good, or know evil. By God telling them not the eat from it, it was the first law, by eating from it, they were taught that it was a evil act, as God told them not to. Therefore, as they were new to world, God demonstrated to them what Evil was, and what Good was. "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" Get it?

I mean God walked with them because you dont just create a sentient being and then not give it any clue of whats going on.

A Brother In Christ · Dec 1, 2008

God did not do evil....

Why was the punishment for sin so harsh ?

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