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why was Peter's name changed?

narnia59

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It's the party line of the roman denomination. You know, like in the unam sanctum claiming that to be saved people must submit to the pope? That's only one example.
Taking one line out of one of thousands of documents and removing it from its context and the cultural realities of its time and making it mean something that's completely contrary to Catholic teaching for the purpose of what?

Have you ever visited an atheist site? Exactly what they do with the Bible. Take small pieces and pick them apart. Remove them from the context and culture. Make them mean something completely different from what the Bible teaches, for the purpose of tearing it down and proving it false.

If you want to discuss Catholic doctrine, discuss what the church teaches, not what those opposed to it "say" it teaches.
 
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mont974x4

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taken from the unam sanctum:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff" (Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis).
 
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PreachersWife2004

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If you want to discuss Catholic doctrine, discuss what the church teaches, not what those opposed to it "say" it teaches.

No thanks. Us "Prots" are in a lose-lose situation here. If we use our own sources, we're accused of using biased information put out by Catholic haters. If we use Catholic sources we're accused of not understanding the source correctly.

The foundation of the Church is Jesus Christ, not Peter. Peter was not the only one given the power to bind and loose. It was given to the entire Church. And not the Catholic Church as we know it today. The Church is not an organization here on earth. It is a heavenly institution made up all who believe in Christ as their Risen Lord and Savior.
 
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narnia59

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Actually I have read the entire unam sanctum, most of teh catechism, and researched the vaticans own website...as well as recent comments from your current pope.


Spin all you want, though.

The purpose of Unam Sanctum was to define the role of the authority between the king and the church. Salvation was not found from being subject to the king.

If you've read Pope Benedict you know he said:
"It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.

And if you've read the cathechism, you know it says:
In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame." The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin: Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.

So let me ask you, exactly who is 'spinning' here? You parade around with one line out of context and culture from a centuries old document and profess it to sum up Catholic doctrine on salvation.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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For your reading pleasure...

I also have to laugh because even in 1913 the Catholic encyclopedia was "explaining" how anti-Catholics like to use the bull against Catholics. But even before that it specifically states:

 
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mont974x4

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The problem is there are statements that contradict official policy, such as the clear statement I posted from the unam santcum, and more recent policies and statements...you know, like we're not real churches and not real Christians.

It takes some wading to get to the root of the matter and the real policy of the vatican.



Of course, given the popes engaging in muslim services I have 0 respect for him as a supposed Christian leader, my intent is simply to expose the darkness with the light of God's Word.
 
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narnia59

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Perhaps the reason it's a "lose-lose" is because you're speaking for a group you're not a member of? And I don't mean you specifically, but in general.

I would never try to explain to a Jewish person what they believed, or a Muslim, or even another Christian. I would listen to try to understand what they believed. I might disagree with it and explain why. But I wouldn't try to tell them, No, you really believe thus and so, and then tell them they're wrong.

I guess this is my frustration, and pardon me for venting to you. But when a Catholic says "the church teaches 'a'", instead of somebody saying why they disagree with 'a', they are often told, no, you really don't understand what your own church teaches (with an implication you're blind, dumb, or brainwashed or all of the above), because your church really teaches 'b', and here is why 'b' is wrong. And the Catholic is left scratching their head, because they know their faith well enough to know the church indeed does teach 'a'. But nobody wants to discuss 'a', they only want to discuss 'b', and convince you why it' wrong.
 
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chestertonrules

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Actually, the only source protestants have is a Catholic source.

Catholics wrote and compiled the bible. Feel free to accept it as the word of God, it is!

Jesus established a Church, and it is still with us.
 
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tz620q

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PreachersWife2004,
Have you read the history of Unam Sanctum? If you would please read this, you will get a much better feel for what was going on at that time and what the results of Unam Sanctum were. TraderJack and I had about a 200 post thread on this about 9 months ago.

God be with you today.
 
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calluna

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Catholics wrote and compiled the bible.
A Palestinian shepherd's voice was recognised by his sheep instantly- that is how mixed flocks were sorted out. Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice, and indeed, it takes a fraction of a second for a saint to recognise Scripture, particularly the New Testament.

Strange, then, that the RCC took hundreds of years to figure out the Master's Voice- and then got it wrong!
 
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chestertonrules

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Your ignorance of history continues to impress me!

The good news? You have so much yet to learn! Enjoy.
 
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chestertonrules

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Catholics wrote the Bible? That would come as a shock to Moses, Isaiah, Paul, David, Mark, and a few others. LOL


I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the new testament.

I apologize for over-estimating your intelligence.
 
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mont974x4

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Now I remember why I put you on ignore awhile back. I guess I'll have to put you back on the list.

If you place your ego in check for a moment you'd see that some of those authors listed were NT folks. Also the last time I checked the OT was indeed part of the Bible.


Nevermind the facts, I'll leave to your arrogance and your ignorance.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the new testament.

I apologize for over-estimating your intelligence.

The Bible = The New Testament? We were supposed to guess that's what you were talking about? Shouldn't you have just written "Catholics wrote and compiled the New Testament?"

Yeah, the NT was written by catholics all right, but as always, they weren't members of what is considered to be the catholic church now.
 
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chestertonrules

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The early Christians were all part of one Church.

Which church was it?
 
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