why to ..... ?

why must I believe in jesus as a god while he didn't say so?

why must I worship him while I can worship the father, whom jesus said he's greater than him?

what part is human in jesus and what part belongs to the god chrecteristics?

didn't jesus say to some jews that they are all gods?

ok, if we said that god in small g letter means it's not the well known God, then how was it translated into english from greek while the greek language doesn't contain capital or small letters?

hope you help me up.

UIN said:

why must I believe in jesus as a god while he didn't say so?

why must I worship him while I can worship the father, whom jesus said he's greater than him?

what part is human in jesus and what part belongs to the god chrecteristics?

didn't jesus say to some jews that they are all gods?

ok, if we said that god in small g letter means it's not the well known God, then how was it translated into english from greek while the greek language doesn't contain capital or small letters?

hope you help me up.

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You don't must believe in Jesus as your first question states, however Jesus did say to believe in Him.

There is no must. It is your choice, God does not coerce man to believe in Him.

There is one God, Father, Son, Spirit.

If you claim to worship the Father, but know not the Son, you do not know God at all. Why? Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. If you deny Jesus, you deny God..

The only way to the Father is Jesus.

I am the way, the truth and the life, no man come to the Father except thru me.

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As God is one, God exists in 3 persons, Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit.

One God, 3 persons.

Jesus is fully man and fully God.

Your next question was did Jesus say you all are gods.

I don't know which verse this is. But does ring familiar, as in a psalm. God, who created all and is all, did not say to man that they are big G gods in an error of some sort if that is what you are thinking.

Without the verse can't speak much to it, but first we'll speak of satan who is the god of this world. Does that mean satan is God? No, it means that satan is the god of this world, little g god. created being.

And without the verse, each person is their own god, that is they worship and serve themselves (unawares and not meaning to) prior to knowing Jesus, as well as worship and serve satan (unawares and not meaning to) prior to knowing Jesus. satan is the god of this world.

man, many believe that the good they do, is what will reap them eternity or paradise or whatever they may believe about their goodness giving them eternal life. That is why I call it self worship, as they worship what they do (unwittenly unawares) and believe that if they are fairly good, or decent, or don't hurt anyone etc, that then whatever they believe about eternity will come to them for their 'goodness'.

Bible says no man is good. All sin, (all wrong doing is sin.)

Also, we are all separated from God prior to belief in Jesus due to our rebellion to God (either awares or unawares.)

Also, that we are dead (spiritually), and the bible calls those not in Christ, dead, that their father is satan, the devil, and that prior to belief in Crist that we were slaves to sin, and slaves to satan.

Jesus death and resurrection of course freed us from death and gave us life and everlasting life, brought forgiveness for sin, for all who will believe/have faith/trust in Jesus, he has freed us from slavery to satan, and to sin, and has given us life, new life. He defeated death and satan and much more due to Jesus' death on the cross and his resurrection.

this is not a statment or talk of arrogance or superiority in any way, this is what the bible speaks of, and anyone who knows about Jesus, knows He teaches humility and to serve others, and consider others better than ourselves. but to clarify wanted to add that.

ah, when you find the verse about being gods, let us know.

Again, if anyone has difficulty with that verse, that is if they think God got confused and said that all or some that He created are also big G gods, well, just have a look at the first commandment... and you'll know our God is a jealous God and there shall be no other little g gods before him.

take care,
tapero

UIN said:

why must I believe in jesus as a god while he didn't say so?

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John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Phil. 2:5-8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."

There are many more, but you get the point.

why must I worship him while I can worship the father, whom jesus said he's greater than him?

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Remember, Jesus had two natures: one fully human, one fully divine.

When Jesus said that the Father is greater than Him, He was talking about His human nature. The Bible repeatedly tells us that Jesus, as God, is equal to the Father in every way.

But the Bible does tell us that it's completely permissible pray to Jesus:

Acts 7:55-60 - "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

1 Cor. 1:1-2 - "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." (The phrase, "to call upon the name of the Lord" is a phrase used to designate prayer.)

1 Kings 18:24 - "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people answered and said, "That is a good idea."

Zech. 13:9 - "And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’"

Rom. 10:13-14 - "for 'whoever will call upon the name of the Lord' will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Paul is speaking of calling upon Jesus. (The phrase "Call upon the name of the Lord" is a quote from Joel 2:32).

Joel 2:32 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (LORD here is YHWH, the name of God as revealed in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, this quote, dealing with God Himself is attributed to Jesus.)

what part is human in jesus and what part belongs to the god chrecteristics?

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Jesus is fully human and fully divine.

didn't jesus say to some jews that they are all gods?

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In John 10:34, we see Jesus speaking to the Pharisees and He quotes Ps 82:6, which says "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

Jesus is not saying that they are gods in any ontological sense, or that they have the nature of gods.

Psalms 82:6 is referring to the judges and priests of Israel and the authority that God gave them to act on His behalf and Jesus is mocking the Pharisees because they were claiming this authority for themselves without being given it by God.

ok, if we said that god in small g letter means it's not the well known God, then how was it translated into english from greek while the greek language doesn't contain capital or small letters?

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I don't understand your question.

DarwinsChainsaw said:

Nowhere in the bible is there a direct statment that God exists as a trinity

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I take it you've never read 1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

There you go: the Trinity.

so why should he have to believe your church's interpretation of the word?

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I'm not talking about my church's interpretation of the word. I'm talking about what the word says.

In each case, I quoted directly from the scriptures.

UIN- Jesus is the gatekeeper to heaven and is very very clear on this. True - its not a "must" issue - its a choice to you. God doesn't force anyone - but wants unconditional love.

The Bible says that he who has Jesus has the Father, but he who has just the Father only doesn' t have the Son. And it says every knee shall bow to Jesus. Without Jesus there is no salvation and is the mediator between us and the Father. We can't ignore Gods Word and do what we want - yes, the world seems to think we can; but one day reality will come.

Acts 7:55-60 - "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

well; if jesus was God, how he standed beside God.

In John 10:34, we see Jesus speaking to the Pharisees and He quotes Ps 82:6, which says "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

how do we determine that he didn't mean it actually?

UIN said:

well; if jesus was God, how he standed beside God.

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First of all when we say that Jesus stands or sits at the right hand of the Father, it does not mean the literal right hand. God is a spirit, not physical, so He does not have a right hand.

The phrase "at the right hand of" in the Bible is not a description of one's location, but of one's authority. It simply means that He is empowered to act on behalf of God the Father.

Even today, we still use a similar expression, "my right hand man".

Second, what you have to remember (and what the verse I showed you earlier clearly shows) is that, while the Son and the Father are one God, they are two seperate and distinct persons.

In John 10:34, we see Jesus speaking to the Pharisees and He quotes Ps 82:6, which says "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

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how do we determine that he didn't mean it actually?

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One of the ways we know that He didn't mean it literally is that, previously, Jesus said in Isaiah 44:6, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

He would not say that there is no other god and then proclaim someone else to be a god. That would be a contradiction.

The second way that we know He is not speaking literally is that He is quoting Psalm 82:6 and we know that Ps 82:6 is not speaking literally.

The third way that we know that He is not speaking literally is that, while he calls them gods, He also says that they will die. Gods do not die.

UIN said:

why must I believe in jesus as a god while he didn't say so?

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One needs to follow his way - that's what 'repent and follow me' is all about. It turns out part of his way is him being God. While he didn't make a straightforward statement equivalent to "I am God" he did and said all sorts of things so that on Easter morning his followers were left with no other options open.

why must I worship him while I can worship the father, whom jesus said he's greater than him?

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If you worship one you must be worshipping the other - and if you deny one you are also denying the other.

what part is human in jesus

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all of him

and what part belongs to the god chrecteristics?

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all of him. Jesus isn't "a bit God and a bit human" but "100% God and 100% human".

didn't jesus say to some jews that they are all gods?

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He quotes some psalms to make particular points.

ok, if we said that god in small g letter means it's not the well known God, then how was it translated into english from greek while the greek language doesn't contain capital or small letters?

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We make distinctions in English that do not exist in the Hebrew and Greek, but that is necessary to cover other issues - such as the lack of a variety of different terms for God in English, etc. All languages use different conventions - in English it is conventional to use 'God' for the one and only, real, creator God (whether the Jewish, Christian or Islamic understanding of that God) and 'god' for all the fake 'gods' or generic understandings of god.

Acts 7:55-60 - "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

well; if jesus was God, how he standed beside God.

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He would be standing beside God the father. Note that Luke (the author of Acts) is borrowing language from the Old Testament book of Daniel.

In John 10:34, we see Jesus speaking to the Pharisees and He quotes Ps 82:6, which says "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

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As you say, he is quoting a psalm to make a point. Ie this isn't Jesus making a doctinal factual statement (he very rarely does that) but is quoting from poetry to make a point about the absurdity of the pharisee's position.

how do we determine that he didn't mean it actually?

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One cannot assume everything should be read hyper-literally unless proven otherwise.

UIN said:

why must I believe in jesus as a god while he didn't say so?

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He implied so very clearly. Others gave you verses.

If you do not believe his disciples who were presenting him as God, then believe the Old Testament that God had a Son.

It was a well known fact in Jewish writings (Proverbs of the Old Testament) that God had a Son.
And, if God had a Son, He must be of the same essense as God.

PR 30:4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and the name of his son?
Tell me if you know!

... that Son would also be called God and Everlasting Father as recorded in the Old Testament.

ISA 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor,Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

UIN said:

why must I worship him while I can worship the father, whom jesus said he's greater than him

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Christ said that God is greater because the word greater in Greek does not mean "better".
It is a positional definition.

Christ made Himself a human servant while voluntarily not utilizing the might of God.

Besides, God Himself called Christ "O God" and "Lord".

HEB 1:8 But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
HEB 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy." n
HEB 1:10 He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
HEB 1:11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
HEB 1:12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end."

UIN said:

what part is human in jesus and what part belongs to the god chrecteristics?

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Fully God and fully man.

UIN said:

didn't jesus say to some jews that they are all gods?

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No, he did not tell Jews that they are gods.

You mean this verse ...

JN 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Verse 34 is a quote from the OT, below ...

PS 82:1 God presides in the great assembly;
he gives judgment among the "gods":
PS 82:2 "How long will you n defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
Selah
PS 82:3 Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
PS 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
PS 82:5 "They know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
PS 82:6 "I said, `You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'
PS 82:7 But you will die like mere men;
you will fall like every other ruler."

In V.1 we see that there is a great assembly of various heavenly hosts in heaven in front of God.
There are "gods" amont them. We do not know who or what they are, but we do know that they are not human.
And these gods were defending the unjust on this Earth.

God judges them and tells them that although they are gods they will die like mortals.

In the context of what Christ told the Pharisees, he was addressing to their objection that the word of God cannot come to Christ. They were accusing him of blasphemy.
Christ said that since the words of God came to even lesser divine beings, gods, it can definitely come to him as the Son of God. No blasphemy.

UIN said:

ok, if we said that god in small g letter means it's not the well known God, then how was it translated into english from greek while the greek language doesn't contain capital or small letters?

hope you help me up.

Click to expand...

Because the context of the NT and OT presents Christ (who was called Word) as everlasting, as holy, as creator of all that there is (visible and invisible), Christ called Himself as I AM (a special definition for God in the OT), He accepted worship AS God from Thomas. Thomas would have never dared calling him god, because the 10 commandments state that one is not to worship gods. There is much more. Too much.

Elsewhere you asked concerning Christ standing at the right hand of God.

Well, we already saw that God has a Son.

Elsewhere we see how God says that today he will be Father and Christ will be Son.

HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father"?
Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"?

Hope this helps.

If you need some clarification on these texts, please do not hesitate and ask.

Thanks,
Ed

UIN- There are three distinct persons in the Godhead - they are all equal in power, essense and authority. God means power, authority, essense and nature. These persons in the Godhead are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

God with the little "g" god- doesn't mean we are equal, all knowing and the infinite God - but we are in God's image - god. We didn't say we were God.

UIN-

Maybe you ought to attend a Bible study. Are you asking to convert to christianity or is this for a research paper or what? Your symbol says your a muslim.

Note: This section isn't the debate area. Also, I won't debate about the Bible since it already proves itself and has hundreds of detailed prophesies that has been fulfilled as I have already shown you. Its like debating that the moon is the sun.