Why There Will Be No Third Temple!!!

Choose Wisely · Mar 31, 2013

ebedmelech;62740264]

Many that hold that there will be a 3rd temple are hard pressed to justify that from scripture.

OK, who put you up to this? This has to be a joke. HARD PRESSED? I would be hard pressed to try to dodge the truth of a third temple.

They said there would be no Israel for almost a couple of thousand years.....and yet, look now.

The third temple will be built likely right after the pre tribulation rapture.

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

Biblewriter said:
Here is the root cause of your error. You dismiss any Old Testament prophecy that was not explicitly repeated in the New Testament, completely forgetting that All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV) Keep in mind that when this was written, almost the only scriptures that they had were the Old Testament scriptures.

Here's why you're in error Biblewriter. The NT apostles shed light of the OT prophecies, but you want to ignore them. So what you should do now is find JUST ONE NT BOOK that says there will be a temple.

Biblewriter said:
God has repeatedly stressed that every word that proceeds from his mouth is important. He explicitly said this in Deuteronomy 8:3, where He said that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD. He considered this sufficiently important that He repeated it twice, in Matthew 4:4 and in Luke 4:4. Jesus again stressed this in Matthew 5:18 when He said, for assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

So perhaps you're not eating God's bread correctly.

Biblewriter said:
This principle is particularly stressed in regard to the Old testament prophecies in 2 Peter 1:19, where we read, And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

No one disagrees with that. It's when you ignore what Peter tells you God's temple is you miss the point. Now again...find one book in the NT attesting to this temple Biblewriter. You can't.

Biblewriter said:
You are using this false test as an excuse to dismiss everyting God said in the Old Testament, thus making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." Mark 7:13 (NKJV) This is a very serious serious error. Jesus charge them with holding traditions that made the word of God of no effect.

No I'm not. You cant even find a third temple in the OT Biblewriter, you erroneously try to say it's Ezekiel's temple vision.

Biblewriter said:
You cannot find even one scripture anywhere that even suggests that there will not be a future temple. So in stoutly declaring that there will not be one you are adding to his word, and He said, Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6 But you are not only adding to his words when you do this, you are taking away from them when you deny the truth of Ezekiels declarations that there will be one, just as you deny the truth of the very, very many scriptures that explicitly say Israel will again be restored to her land. In so doing, you are exposing yourself to the warning of Revelation 22:18-19, For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

No...what it is is you ignore the John describes what Ezekiel saw in Revelation 21. It's the New Jerusalem...and theres NO TEMPLE THERE.

Now you can ramble on but there's NO EVIDENCE at for a third temple.

Now...you lay out your scriptural evidence...I've laid out mine....

I await your response.

JLB777 · Mar 31, 2013

Jipsah said:
Except maybe the entire letter to the Hebrews.

The "third temple" is a contrivance created by people who have (probably willfully) misunderstood our Lord's Olivet Discourse so that it didn't have any meaning to those to whom He was speaking.

The Olivet Discourse was an answer to a question about -

... what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Jesus then told them, which is recorded in verse 4 all the way through 25:46 and it is all about His coming and the end of the age.

No references are made to the events of 70 AD. None. Zero.

There are sixteen direct references to His Coming and the end of the age and ZERO references to the events of 70 AD.

ZERO.

Matthew 24 and 25 are what is known as the Olivet discourse.

Luke 21 is not. It takes place in the temple grounds in the hearing of all who were present.

The content of Matthew 24:4 - 25 and Mark 13 are a private teaching to His Church leadership.

It was written to all, especially those living in the time frame of the events or signs that He described woulf preceed His return.

The temple is the main one that indicates the 7 years of Daniels 70th week.

The sun, moon and stars are just before he returns.

JLB

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

JLB777 said:
The Olivet Discourse was an answer to a question about -

... what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Jesus then told them, which is recorded in verse 4 all the way through 25:46 and it is all about His coming and the end of the age.

No references are made to the events of 70 AD. None. Zero.

It's a prophecy that was fulfilled in 70 A.D.

JLB777 said:
There are sixteen direct references to His Coming and the end of the age and ZERO references to the events of 70 AD.

ZERO.

Show me any "coming of the Lord" in the OT that was physical. Jesus first came in judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A. D., that is Matthew 24. His final coming in judgment is in Matthew 25.

JLB777 said:
Matthew 24 and 25 are what is known as the Olivet discourse.

Luke 21 is not. It takes place in the temple grounds in the hearing of all who were present.

Luke 21 is also the Olivet Discourse, as is Mark 13, they are all the same event! Luke and Mark simply give a condensed version of it.

JLB777 said:
The content of Matthew 24:4 - 25 and Mark 13 are a private teaching to His Church leadership.

It was written to all, especially those living in the time frame of the events or signs that He described woulf preceed His return.

The temple is the main one that indicates the 7 years of Daniels 70th week.

The sun, moon and stars are just before he returns.

JLB

Not at all. You're ignoring many times where this language of the sun moon and stars is used to indicate judgment. Take a tour and search it through the OT.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Mar 31, 2013

I think that Ezekiel's encounter with an angel really happened. The following description of a temple, for 8 chapters is probably describing a real temple, but probably after the return of Christ, built by believers and angels.

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
I think that Ezekiel's encounter with an angel really happened. The following description of a temple, for 8 chapters is probably describing a real temple, but probably after the return of Christ, built by believers and angels.

What Ezekiel is describing is a vision of New Jerusalem. He tells you that in Ezekiel 40:2:
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.

When you compare that to Revelation 21:10, John sees the same thing:
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

These are the same thing..."a man" with a measuring rod guiding both Ezekiel and John through their visions:

Ezekiel 40:3:
3 So He brought me there; and behold, there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of bronze, with a line of flax and a measuring rod in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway.

Revelation 21:11:
15 The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall.

God is showing them both New Jerusalem. The difference is that John is given more information about it. He calls it New Jerusalem.

Ezekiel's vision has a temple because Christ had not come at the time of Ezekiel's vision, so we see a temple as it's being measured in Ezekiel 40:5:
5 And behold, there was a wall on the outside of the temple all around, and in the man’s hand was a measuring rod of six cubits, each of which was a cubit and a handbreadth.

In Johns vision Christ has come, so the is no temple because Christ is the temple as Rev 21:22:
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple

When you compare these in light of the NT is comes very clear.

Biblewriter · Mar 31, 2013

ebedmelech said:
Here's why you're in error Biblewriter. The NT apostles shed light of the OT prophecies, but you want to ignore them.

This is a simple falsehood. I ignore the distortions you place upon the NT, not what it says.

Now you can ramble on but there's NO EVIDENCE at for a third temple.

Now...you lay out your scriptural evidence...I've laid out mine....

I await your response.

Click to expand...

I and many others already have, but you choose to deny it. I do not have time to go over it again.

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

Biblewriter said:
This is a simple falsehood. I ignore the distortions you place upon the NT, not what it says.

Now you can ramble on but there's NO EVIDENCE at for a third temple.

I and many others already have, but you choose to deny it. I do not have time to go over it again.

No....but that's a good evasion tactic Biblewriter. Because this destroys your literal theology you want to call what you don't understand false.

I remember our debate on Ezekiel, and obviously you do too. You couldn't justify a third temple then either so you resorted to your "over and out" tactic. You do that a lot when you have no answer.

One day you may understand though. Until then you call what you can't deal with "distortion of the NT".

As I see it, you're doing exactly what the Pharisees did when Jesus set them straight. You leave the debate because you have no answer.

Try Herbrews 9 Biblewriter...which makes Christ EVERYTHING from temple to sacrifice. It goes into good detail about the temple and how Christ fulfills it.

It wraps it up by telling you the temple were COPIES of things in heaven, but since Christ appeared they are no longer necessary.

Try reconciling your temple to this fact of Hebrews 9:24-26:
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Can you explain if Christ made the sacrifice ONCE...why is a temple needed?

No you can't...but again, since it destroys your theology, you won't deal with it.

If there was anywhere to speak of a third temple...it would be Hebrews 9...yet it says nothing.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Mar 31, 2013

What Ezekiel is describing is a vision of New Jerusalem. He tells you that in Ezekiel 40:2:
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.

I don't think it was just a vision. if it's not a temple, why bother to take 8 chapters to describe it. I think it might be that Ezekiel and Rev. don't line up, one says temple, the other no temple. I believe that Ezekiel really did encounter an angel, Rev. is probably a mish mash of themes taken from the various visionary prophets.
as far as i'm concerned, the prophets come second, after the recorded words of Jesus, then the torah, then the epistles and then Rev. placed in an appendix of historical oddities at the end.

vinsight4u · Mar 31, 2013

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
What Ezekiel is describing is a vision of New Jerusalem. He tells you that in Ezekiel 40:2:
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.

I don't think it was just a vision. if it's not a temple, why bother to take 8 chapters to describe it.

It says "In the visions of God"...so it's a vision.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
I think it might be that Ezekiel and Rev. don't line up, one says temple, the other no temple. I believe that Ezekiel really did encounter an angel, Rev. is probably a mish mash of themes taken from the various visionary prophets.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
as far as i'm concerned, the prophets come second, after the recorded words of Jesus, then the torah, then the epistles and then Rev. placed in an appendix of historical oddities.

As you read Ezekiel...you come to 43:10-12:
10 “As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan.
11If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.
12 This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

When was Israel ever ashamed? They never were! They went on to crucify Christ.

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

Choose Wisely said:
OK, who put you up to this? This has to be a joke. HARD PRESSED? I would be hard pressed to try to dodge the truth of a third temple.

They said there would be no Israel for almost a couple of thousand years.....and yet, look now.

The third temple will be built likely right after the pre tribulation rapture.

You can't even find the truth of a third temple. Show it in scripture if you don't mind.

Steve Petersen · Mar 31, 2013

Physical and spiritual temples are not mutually exclusive.

The Second Temple stood for 40 years AFTER Acts 2 event took place.

Interplanner · Mar 31, 2013

The reason people have trouble with the temple theme is because they are already missing the mission. IN the 3 chapters on being ministers of the new covenant (a temple term) and doing the 'ministry that brings righteousness' (a temple term), the temple Paul is speaking of is all those who minister for this covenant (2 Cor 3-6). The 'shekinah' (a temple term) shines all the time from this temple because Christ is the glory. No one ever need veil their faces in dismay at a fading glory again! This temple does not have human-operated offices sending out official letters of authority with its envoys about the 'tablets written in stone' but people on whom the Spirit of God has written the law of love. Jer 32 and Ezek 37 are fulfilled; God does 'walk among' his people now, in this temple. Its mission is to help all the nations see and believe on him; it is necessarily transcultural and mobile.

--Inter

vinsight4u · Mar 31, 2013

JLB777 · Mar 31, 2013

ebedmelech said:
It's a prophecy that was fulfilled in 70 A.D.

Show me any "coming of the Lord" in the OT that was physical. Jesus first came in judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A. D., that is Matthew 24. His final coming in judgment is in Matthew 25.

Luke 21 is also the Olivet Discourse, as is Mark 13, they are all the same event! Luke and Mark simply give a condensed version of it.

Not at all. You're ignoring many times where this language of the sun moon and stars is used to indicate judgment. Take a tour and search it through the OT.

Your flimsy lackadaisical answers proves you are not interested in the truth of the scriptures, but only your own denominational "theories".

Matthew 24:3 -24:46 is ALL about "the coming of The Lord and the end of the age".

There is ZERO language in there about the events of 70 AD.

As I said before, I will say it again, THERE IS ZERO, language in the Olivet discourse, which is Matthew 24:4 -25:46, about the events of 70 AD.

6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.

50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,

6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Sixteen direct references to The Coming of The Lord and the end of the age an absolutely ZERO references about the events of 70 AD.

You expect us to totally disregard all the scriptures Jesus taught us about His coming and the end of the age, even stating clearly what He would do when he got here, and just take your word that what He was really talking about was the events of 70 AD.

Luke 21 and Luke 21 ONLY "mentions" some things about the events of 70 AD as He was in the temple in the hearing of all those who where present.

Matthew 24 & 25 and mark 13 is Jesus privately teaching His disciples about His coming and the end of the age.

Maybe if you spent more time studying to show yourself approved, that you may rightly divide the word, you might have to be so ashamed at what you write.

JLB

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

Steve Petersen said:
Physical and spiritual temples are not mutually exclusive.

The Second Temple stood for 40 years AFTER Acts 2 event took place.

That would be correct. However, the physical temple had to disappear after Christ came...and because Israel (the Jews), needed to understand that, after Christ gave up His spirit on the cross, the veil of the temple was torn in half, which indicated the end of sacrifice and offering.

Ultimately when Christ came in judgement of Jerusalem, the temple was utterly destroyed just as He prophesied in Matthew 24.

There will never be another physical temple. Even with all the "eschatalogical futurist" in the world, pushing towards getting the Jews back into the land to be slaughtered after building a temple, it won't happen.

I believe God will see to that.

The physical temple is a type of the spiritual temple...which is Christ and the church.

1 Corinthians 3:16:
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

It's right there...believers are the temple.

JLB777 · Mar 31, 2013

Interplanner said:
The reason people have trouble with the temple theme is because they are already missing the mission. IN the 3 chapters on being ministers of the new covenant (a temple term) and doing the 'ministry that brings righteousness' (a temple term), the temple Paul is speaking of is all those who minister for this covenant (2 Cor 3-6). The 'shekinah' (a temple term) shines all the time from this temple because Christ is the glory. No one ever need veil their faces in dismay at a fading glory again! This temple does not have human-operated offices sending out official letters of authority with its envoys about the 'tablets written in stone' but people on whom the Spirit of God has written the law of love. Jer 32 and Ezek 37 are fulfilled; God does 'walk among' his people now, in this temple. Its mission is to help all the nations see and believe on him; it is necessarily transcultural and mobile.

--Inter

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

The problem with trying to explain away what Paul clearly taught us is -

The man of sin is a man, not a spirit. for it is written -

And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

The man of sin will be revealed, in his own time for the purpose of deceiving those who do not have the love of the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness. He will deceive by working miracles after the coming of Satan.

This man will been seen and known by all he deceives.

He will go to the temple and proclaim himself as God.

He will be destroyed by Jesus Christ Himself.

He is not invisible.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

JLB

ebedmelech · Mar 31, 2013

JLB777 said:
Your flimsy lackadaisical answers proves you are interested in the truth of the scriptures, but only your own denominational "theories".

Matthew 24:3 -24:46 is ALL about "the coming of The Lord and the end of the age".

There is ZERO language in there about the events of 70 AD.

As I said before, I will say it again, THERE IS ZERO, language in the Olivet discourse, which is Matthew 24:4 -25:46, about the events of 70 AD.

6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.

50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,

6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Sixteen direct references to The Coming of The Lord and the end of the age an absolutely ZERO references about the events of 70 AD.

You expect us to totally disregard all the scriptures Jesus taught us about His coming and the end of the age, even stating clearly what He would do when he got here, and just take your word that what He was really talking about was the events of 70 AD.

Luke 21 and Luke 21 ONLY "mentions" some things about the events of 70 AD as He was in the temple in the hearing of all those who where present.

Matthew 24 & 25 and mark 13 is Jesus privately teaching His disciples about His coming and the end of the age.

Maybe if you spent more time studying to show yourself approved, that you may rightly divide the word, you might have to be so ashamed at what you write.

JLB

That's quite an attack...but that won't do. However, this will only start another thread, within a thread.

Tell you what...anytime you want, start your thread, and I'll engage you. Let's see who's showing themselves approved to God.

ANY TIME!

vinsight4u · Mar 31, 2013

Why There Will Be No Third Temple!!!

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