Why the Confusion Over Doctrine

[AVBunyan]

Look around you and see the great confusion over doctrinal issues – just look at this forum and others. There are many reasons why we get confused. Some of us are lazy in their Bible study, little Bible reading, poor church attendance, hearts of unbelief, bad hearts, sin, etc. These are some of the reasons why we just don’t get what God has for us but I’ve narrowed it down to three basics – without these three there will be areas of doctrinal truths lacking.



1. The person may be lost (talked about this before) so he cannot understand spiritual things. No further explanation needed.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



2. The person may have conflicting authorities such as multiple versions of the Bible, Greek and Hebrew lexicons, his church, pastor, or priest, or his commentaries, etc. All of the above will disagree so what is he or she to do? I just happen to believe that the final authority is God’s word and that is found in a King James Bible.



3. The person doesn’t know what portions of the scriptures first and foremost apply doctrinally to him. He tries to go to the OT, Gospels, Acts, Paul, Tribulation truths, etc. When the passages contradict he doesn’t know how to straighten them out. He thinks the whole Bible is just lumped together and he is to apply it all to him doctrinally forgetting that all the scriptures were written for him but not all to him. He won’t sacrifice a lamb for he knows some of the law is gone but other than that he just tries to reconcile the whole Bible doctrinally to himself today and gets in a mess. The Lord gave the apostle Paul the latest instructions for us today and when one starts there first then the rest starts to make sense:

2 Tim 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.



Now, what happens when #1 applies? There is no hope to have an understanding of doctrinal issues. One may learn and memorize facts and principles but have no real understanding though he will get some understanding of the word of God is quick and powerful. But the first thing he must do is believe that Christ died for his sins, was buried and rose from the dead and get regenerated by the Holy Spirit and then he can start to get understanding.

Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.



Now, if he does get saved but #2 applies then he is still in a mess but at least he is saved. Now what does he do, he has multiple translations, lexicons, manuscripts, pastors, priests, churches, commentaries and they all say something different. How can one get sound doctrine on a regular basis if he has so many CONFLICTING AUTHORITIES? Yes, study aids are good and men’s guidance is good but what if they disagree? Confusion reigns. I believe many saved people are experiencing this today – the average saint is confused and doesn’t know which is the real authority.



Now, if the person is wrestling with #2 and #3 then chaos reigns! Not only does he have conflicting authorities but also now he takes those conflicting authorities and tries to reconcile the whole Bible to himself today forgetting the book is a book of progressive revelation.



Finally, if one is dealing with all three then he is as confused as a termite in a yo yo! NO hope. If one is saved and gets #2 settle but not sure of #3 then there is hope for at least he has an authority (I believe it is a King James Bible). If you have #1 there is much hope but if you add #2 you are going downhill and if you add to this #3 then it gets even rougher.



A lot of what is going on today is unregenerate church members with conflicting authorities going places in the Bible that don’t doctrinally apply to them and this produces disaster in epic proportions.



I believe a lot of saved people today are wrestling with #2 and #3 and this is why so many saints today are confused over the major doctrines.



Your thoughts?

 

[OracleX]

Look around you and see the great confusion over doctrinal issues – just look at this forum and others. There are many reasons why we get confused. Some of us are lazy in their Bible study, little Bible reading, poor church attendance, hearts of unbelief, bad hearts, sin, etc.

Lazy ... that would have summed it up for me and things in my past. Was looking for the quick fix, easy way out and didn't want to spend hours trying to figure things out. Basically checked the brains at the door and said "Whatever the pastor says." LOL I had a pastor that said that once in one of his sermons it was really quiet funny, but it hit home.

 

[BT]

You'll have no arguments from me!


I would add, if I may, that systems of interpretation come into play as well.

Two basic kinds of interpretation are

1. Dogmatic (leads to confusion and false doctrine)

2. Plenary (leads to illumination and true doctrine)


When we read the Bible using a dogmatic form of interpretation we make up our own doctrine. This is always bad.

When we read the Bible using a plenary form of interpretation we allow the Bible to declare the doctrine.

It is the job of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. He is the illuminator!

My advice is trust in Him and don't have "many teachers", and don't be "blown to and fro", test all things and be like the Bereans who were called "more righteous" because they took the teachings of the apostles and "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so"..The answers are in the Bible!

 

[JM]

AV is right on, its always good to read one of AV's posts...

 

[Cright]

I think this post has validity.. except for the words "no hope" I think that is a contradiction of terms.. I believe that thanks to God and our dear Jesus Christ, there is always hope.

For me the problem was lack of leadership/authority all together! I had no one at church not a pastor or priest or bible school teacher ect.. no matter how hard I looked.

The first time the opportuinity presented itself for me to attend bible study I felt embarrased of my ignorance so I didn't attend. (my fault, yes I know).

Finally I got into a one on one situation of being asked questions and asking questions w/ my bf. He got me involved in a couple bible studies/Christian study groups.. and it lead to a 3rd that he didn't attend.

So.. to add to the list...

- pride.

 

[BT]

Great insight Carina!


I'll add this to your thought.

Another giant lack is discipleship! Far too often a person comes to Christ and we say, "Congratulations! See ya later."

I did a tag-team sermon on Sunday. My part was on evangelism and the other guy's part was on discipleship. His premise was this..

"If you have a baby you don't come home from the hospital, put it one the floor and say, "Ok the diapers are in the closet and there is some food in the fridge. See ya in 18 years" and leave (unless you're crazy ).

New Christians are "babes" in Christ. We need to help them grow and mature and reproduce themselves.

 

[kayanne]

i hope this forum isn't going to continue becoming an ever-growing battle of kjv vs "those other wrong" translations. i'm starting to feel rather put down and unwelcome here.

yes, i have admitted to having uncertainty on certain doctrinal issues, but i cannot imagine for a moment that switching to kjv would clear them up for me. there are certainly people who use only kjv who don't agree on everything either.

and as far as a person having "conflicting authorities," do you suggest that after a person is saved they pick one preacher, one church, one study aid, etc etc, and never try to compare and decipher and learn??? of course a person is going to encounter conflicting ideas and doctrines--we are human, not infallible, and for now "we see through a glass dimly."

i have my personal leanings/opinions on most debatable doctrinal issues; but i don't see the need to constantly make an issue of them. i don't see the need to see eye to eye with every other christian on osas, pre post or mid, one communion cup or individual, instrumental worship or only vocal, footwashing important or not, or a whole host of other secondary issues that won't make a lick of difference where anyone spends eternity. i see it as a pride/humility issue really. i am not God; i do not understand everything perfectly. i will not stand here and say that my opinion on a widely debated issue is correct, and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. God receives no glory in such divisions and bickerings.

 

[eldermike]

i hope this forum isn't going to continue becoming an ever-growing battle of kjv vs "those other wrong" translations. i'm starting to feel rather put down and unwelcome here.

yes, i have admitted to having uncertainty on certain doctrinal issues, but i cannot imagine for a moment that switching to kjv would clear them up for me. there are certainly people who use only kjv who don't agree on everything either.

You are right, switching bible translations is not the answer.

 

[BT]

You are welcome here Kayanne!

 

[BronxBriar]

I just happen to believe that the final authority is God’s word and that is found in a King James Bible.



Your thoughts?

Amen, Amen, Amen. I agree witht he entire post.

In response to the above quote however I respectfully offer the following:

God's Word is our final authority. By that I mean that Christ Jesus the Lord is my final authority....his deeds, his words, his example. Too often today I see that some believers place Paul over Jesus. I am not Paul's, I am not Peter's, I belong to Christ...that is my focus, that is my center. I filter Paul through Christ not the other way around. If that could be our starting point might that lessen the doctrinal discord a bit?

Warmest regards.

 

[Cright]

I use mostly TEV, then NIV, and then KJV.



I think it's important to learn the way that's best for you. I use my bible (TEV) for my regular reading.. it's the one I'm most familiar w/ because I've owned it for years. My bf's NIV is the 2nd most common for me to pick up.. also what's most widely used in the church I attend.. and KJV when I visit other churches or as reference when I use biblegateway.com



I think that this can lead to confusion if I try to do all my studies w/ all 3 versions, but I just use one at a time, and so far no probs.



I don't think one is better than the other, and I don't think that KJV is the only one to read.. if it were.. what would all the people in the world that don't speak English use?



Anyway.. I feel that the OP was making a point that we should focus more on a bible than many bibles or references.


I know many are KJV only, but I haven't felt unwelcome.

 

[Blackhawk]

I do not think many refrences are a problem. In fact I see few refrences as a bigger problem than too many. Of course one has to put the Bible as the authority above all other refrences but if one just reads conservative evangelical scholars then one is not going to see all God has to say to them. I am conservative and evnagleical but in some things I believe Catholics have it more on the ball than we do and in some things (Dare I say) I think liberals do also. Looking at all the viewpoints is not bad but being lazy and looking at all the viewpoints can get very confusing.

As far as KJV only, I am not one who believes in this either. I do not want to debate that here but I want others to know that many of us here are not KJV only.

 

[Blackhawk]

Amen, Amen, Amen. I agree witht he entire post.

In response to the above quote however I respectfully offer the following:

God's Word is our final authority. By that I mean that Christ Jesus the Lord is my final authority....his deeds, his words, his example. Too often today I see that some believers place Paul over Jesus. I am not Paul's, I am not Peter's, I belong to Christ...that is my focus, that is my center. I filter Paul through Christ not the other way around. If that could be our starting point might that lessen the doctrinal discord a bit?

Warmest regards.

No it would not. I do no want to discuss why I think we can and should take Paul's writings in the biblical text on par with the gospels but I think that if you filter Paul's words with Jesus' then you are misusing the Biblical text. And BTW paul and Jesus did not disagree so if you did filter Paul's words through Jesus' there would be nothing to filter out.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Please feel welcome here Kayanne!
I love your posts!
Back in the day, when the KJV was widely used by many denominations, there was doctrinal differances between the denominations, but not nearly as many as there are now that there are 14,000 ( i am exaggerating) differant bible to choose from.
This is why I think that the christian churchs have a hard time being unified as Christ's body. Back in the day, it was nothing for the Baptist and the penecostals, and the methodist to have a fellowship day where the preachers sat down and could have a fellowship meal and even do a revival together because one bible was being used.
Anyway, don't let us kjv preferres make you feel like your not at home. YOU are at home sweetie!
GEL

 

[eldermike]

As far as KJV only, I am not one who believes in this either. I do not want to debate that here but I want others to know that many of us here are not KJV only.

I am another who is not KLV only. In fact giving away bibles is one of my personal ministries and I never buy KJV for this purpose. I have found that plain english versions are better to give to seekers. Always include the name of a mentor (you or someone who has agreed to be one), just write it on the inside cover and give them away. The bible has to be translated into living languages, it's a process that must be continued. The lost in every language need to be given the word of God and it's silly to think that a lost form of english is the only way God can speak to people. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I will not debate this, but I offer my opinion here.

Mike

 

[BT]

No it would not. I do no want to discuss why I think we can and should take Paul's writings in the biblical text on par with the gospels but I think that if you filter Paul's words with Jesus' then you are misusing the Biblical text. And BTW paul and Jesus did not disagree so if you did filter Paul's words through Jesus' there would be nothing to filter out.

If you want to be literal (which I am). Paul wrote Jesus' words. The epistles are inspired (God Breathed). I don't really understand this filtering discussion. I take it all as written by the same person... God.

 

[BronxBriar]

My concern was this:and I agree that many mis-use the text.

Followers of Jesus are committed to a Jesus-centred approach to life, to work, to church, to moral decisions, to priorities, to worship, to finance, to the Bible, to leadership – to everything.


But is the teaching of Jesus really central to the way Christians and churches live?

There is a concern (in some baptist and anabaptist quarters) about:

• *The way the Old Testament has been used to justify practices that are
inconsistent with what Jesus taught (e.g. warfare, swearing oaths, tithing).


• *The way other parts of the New Testament have been used to support
behaviour that does not square with the way Jesus lived according to the
Gospels (e.g. unquestioning loyalty to the state, restricting the participation of
women).
•
*The way church leaders have been willing to set aside Jesus’ teaching in return
for political support or social stability.


•* The way church traditions, clever interpretations of the Bible and doctrinal
statements have hindered Christians from listening to Jesus and taking him
seriously.


Is the way we think about certain issues more influenced by our culture than by the
gospel?


Is the way our church operates more influenced by its traditions than the teaching of
Jesus?


Are there subjects on which we are guided by the Old Testament rather than the New
Testament?


Do we pay more attention to Paul’s teaching than to the teaching of Jesus?
Read Matthew 15:1-11.


Here, as in many other places in the Gospels, Jesus challenges his contemporaries to
obey God rather than following their human rules and customs. He angers the
Pharisees as he claims the right to challenge Old Testament practices (or at least the
ways these were being interpreted) and teach new ways of living.


‘Jesus at the center’ means that we do not allow his example, lifestyle and teaching to
be pushed to one side by our traditions, the way we interpret the Bible, or any other
factors.


That's what I was trying to say. I offer this only for the clarification of my thought and am not looking to debate with my brothers and sisters here. I understand from your posts that you think differently on some points.


In Fellowship.

 

[Andyman_1970]

My concern was this:and I agree that many mis-use the text.

There is a concern (in some baptist and anabaptist quarters) about:

• *The way the Old Testament has been used to justify practices that are
inconsistent with what Jesus taught (e.g. warfare, swearing oaths, tithing).

It's very interesting how the tithing issue is misused. I can't tell you how many times our pastor has preached on money and tithing, and it's always Malachi chapter 3, and nothing of what Paul says in Corinthians. Not only that but a misuse of Malachi 3 and taking it out of the context of the OT.

But back to the OP, unless you really research this, you don't know the Text is being misused. For years I thought this was true, that if I didn't give 10% I was robbing God, and was guilted ("A Christian should give more under grace than a Jew under the Law") into giving.

 

[eldermike]

If you want to be literal (which I am). Paul wrote Jesus' words. The epistles are inspired (God Breathed). I don't really understand this filtering discussion. I take it all as written by the same person... God.

That's right! The red letters were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not Jesus. If the logic of who's words are we to follow was valid then we simply are left with no actual writings from Jesus. There is only one account of Jesus writing anything and the wind took care of wiping that away. God wrote the bible, all of it.

 

[eldermike]

It's very interesting how the tithing issue is misused. I can't tell you how many times our pastor has preached on money and tithing, and it's always Malachi chapter 3, and nothing of what Paul says in Corinthians. Not only that but a misuse of Malachi 3 and taking it out of the context of the OT.

I would ask you to consider how many people are pulled away from the church by this issue. What is at the root of this problem?
Pastors preach about money because we are not free cheerful givers. Most churches struggle to pay the light bills, how can they be involved in the mission field when they can't even keep the roof fixed? This issue gets to me. If we followed the "teachings of Jesus" there would be no need for another sermon on tithing. Tithing is a baby step in christian growth. It's milk preaching.