WHY SOLA SCRIPTURA MAKES SENSE - A REBUTTAL

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
You do realize that you just confirmed the maxim, right?

You were faced with two actions:
Action-A, perceived as evil
Action-B, perceived as good.

In this case you chose Action-A, but you acknowledge that you SHOULD have gone with B.

The maxim isn't a declaration of what you did. It's a stipulation on what you SHOULD do. To live in accordance with the maxim simply means to operate under a mentality consistent with that ideology. Which you just confirmed.

Wait, I'm glad you pointed that out because I just found another flaw in your maxim; I didn't realize it, but the entire thing is convoluted because it's all based on SUBJECTIVE variables. Truth is not subjective; it's either true, or it's not.

That might be why thinking about it too long gives me a headache. Reminds me of something Hitler would've used to justify killing all of those Jewish people.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
You realize that sword cuts both ways, don't you? When Jesus incarnated Himself among the Jews, HE found Himself entrenched in man-made traditions created by the Sola Scriptura parties of his day (Pharisees, Sadducees, teachers of the law).

Exegesis is man-made interpretations of Scriptura. When it's used to dictate religious behavior, it INEVITABLY leads to man-made traditions. Jesus walked in Direct Revelation and thus in liberation from all those self-imposed burdens.

The Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God *EPHESIANS 6:17 and that is what JESUS used to cut his way out of the teachings and traditions of men that broke the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. What ever way you want to spin it JESUS always used the Word of God

YouAreAwesome · Apr 21, 2020

@theoneandonlypencil

From what I can understand from your posts, you've misunderstood two things:

1. Hearing from God does not mean we throw out the Bible. Neither does it mean that we override the Bible in every case. Rather, we listen to the Spirit and allow Him to guide us as we read. The Bible itself ordains us all to do this "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth." (John 16:13). No one is saying we should flat out override the Bible. Neither is the argument that everyone should listen to "my interpretation because I heard God tell me this". Rather, we are to each one, personally listen to God and trust His voice.

2. To ordain Scripture as God-breathed can not be told to us "from the bible". Rather, we choose to trust the Bible because of some reason - most often that reason is personal conviction from the wooing of the Holy Spirit. Would you agree the Holy Spirit trumps the Bible? Of course He does. But that doesn't remove the authority of the Bible; it is the best history of God's relationship with humanity that we've got.

I thought I should mention these things because to me it seems like you've been arguing some points against strawmen.

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
Your point is contingent not on the assumption that everyday people do or do not depart from the maxim--but that the maxim is, or either is a large part of, God's method of 'direct revelation' which is to be believed over his pre-recorded word--which you have yet to prove at all. (Don't even get me started on the linear view you portray of the purpose of scripture)

Direct Revelation is to be believed over His written Word? I don't believe that Direct Revelation contradicts His written Word - but I don't need to "check it out with Scripture" to find out. Here's why. I only have ONE obligation to God - you guessed it, the maxim. Therefore as long as a Direct Revelation moves me in a way consistent with the maxim, it is automatically authoritative.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 21, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
@theoneandonlypencil

From what I can understand from your posts, you've misunderstood two things:

1. Hearing from God does not mean we throw out the Bible. Neither does it mean that we override the Bible in every case. Rather, we listen to the Spirit and allow Him to guide us as we read. The Bible itself ordains us all to do this "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth." (John 16:13). No one is saying we should flat out override the Bible. Neither is the argument that everyone should listen to "my interpretation because I heard God tell me this". Rather, we are to each one, personally listen to God and trust His voice.

2. To ordain Scripture as God-breathed can not be told to us "from the bible". Rather, we choose to trust the Bible because of some reason - most often that reason is personal conviction from the wooing of the Holy Spirit. Would you agree the Holy Spirit trumps the Bible? Of course He does. But that doesn't remove the authority of the Bible; it is the best history of God's relationship with humanity that we've got.

I thought I should mention these things because to me it seems like you've been arguing some points against strawmen.

How can the Holy Spirit trump the bible when the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth *JOHN 6:63 and God's Word is truth *JOHN 17:17? God's Spirit works through the Word of God as it is the Spirit of the Word of truth. It does not work outside of the Word of God as it teaches us to understand it and testifies of it.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
Direct Revelation is to be believed over His written Word? I don't believe that Direct Revelation contradicts His written Word - but I don't need to "check it out with Scripture" to find out. Here's why. I only have ONE obligation to God - you guessed it, the maxim. Therefore as long as a Direct Revelation moves me in a way consistent with the maxim, it is automatically authoritative.

Nonsense. We are told in the scriptures to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not through the written Word.

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I gave two valid examples of where your maxim fails, and you didn't bother to respond. Don't ask me to recite them; go back and re-read my messages at least three times, go calm down and drink some tea, then we'll talk when you're ready to have a proper debate and not a childish flamewar.

I think I dealt with one of your 'examples' at post 174.

Does anyone know which examples I missed? He's claiming to be the first person ever to have found an exception to the maxim and, if I missed it, please someone tell me what I missed.

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
@theoneandonlypencil

From what I can understand from your posts, you've misunderstood two things:

1. Hearing from God does not mean we throw out the Bible. Neither does it mean that we override the Bible in every case. Rather, we listen to the Spirit and allow Him to guide us as we read. The Bible itself ordains us all to do this "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth." (John 16:13). No one is saying we should flat out override the Bible. Neither is the argument that everyone should listen to "my interpretation because I heard God tell me this". Rather, we are to each one, personally listen to God and trust His voice.

2. To ordain Scripture as God-breathed can not be told to us "from the bible". Rather, we choose to trust the Bible because of some reason - most often that reason is personal conviction from the wooing of the Holy Spirit. Would you agree the Holy Spirit trumps the Bible? Of course He does. But that doesn't remove the authority of the Bible; it is the best history of God's relationship with humanity that we've got.

I thought I should mention these things because to me it seems like you've been arguing some points against strawmen.

Once again, I'm aware of these points, but none of that really changes the fact that Scripture is indeed the best recording of God's word we have; and if we don't know what he's said already, there's really no other way we can know if the 'voice' we're hearing is God or not because we have nothing to compare it to. That's why Sola Scriptura is important, imo.

I already know the bible could be flawed, yet if it's not true then...you know, that creates a much, much bigger problem here.

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Nonsense. We are told in the scriptures to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not through the written Word.

The test isn't exegesis. Nowhere is exegesis mentioned as the test. What IS mentioned in such contexts is the anointing. IN other words, the test consists of checking whether the spirit in question agrees, or disagrees, with you already learned from the anointing by Direct Revelation.

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
Direct Revelation is to be believed over His written Word? I don't believe that Direct Revelation contradicts His written Word - but I don't need to "check it out with Scripture" to find out. Here's why. I only have ONE obligation to God - you guessed it, the maxim. Therefore as long as a Direct Revelation moves me in a way consistent with the maxim, it is automatically authoritative.

We've already covered at least five different times why the maxim doesn't work here.

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
I think I dealt with one of your 'examples' at post 174.

Does anyone know which examples I missed? He's claiming to be the first person ever to have found an exception to the maxim and, if I missed it, please someone tell me what I missed.

You didn't respond to my comment on the problem it creates being similar to universalism(the analogy with the tribal people)or the example involving atheists. All you did was throw a fit over my comparison and, as I said, put words in my mouth.

Furthermore I am a SHE. I doubt any man on here would have a cartoon cat with its butt sticking out of a box as a pfp.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 21, 2020

chilehed said:
First you have to prove that all of the ancient documents you cite actually are God's word. You haven't done that, so everything else you say can be ignored for now.

What? Are you claiming that the bible is not God's Word? Oh right Catholic. Sorry I did not notice.

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
Wait, I'm glad you pointed that out because I just found another flaw in your maxim; I didn't realize it, but the entire thing is convoluted because it's all based on SUBJECTIVE variables. Truth is not subjective; it's either true, or it's not.

That might be why thinking about it too long gives me a headache. Reminds me of something Hitler would've used to justify killing all of those Jewish people.

It doesn't MATTER whether it's subjective. You LIVE by it. You want to convince me that it's flawed? Prove that you don't live by it. Show me where and when to depart from it - show me scenarios that clearly call for any of us to depart from it.

YouAreAwesome · Apr 21, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
the Catholic Church not following scripture and teaching that man made traditions supersede the Word of God.

Yeah, the SDA's like to throw dirt at Catholics, I know, I used to be one.

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
It doesn't MATTER whether it's subjective. You LIVE by it. You want to convince me that it's flawed? Prove that you don't live by it. Show me where and when to depart from it - show me scenarios that clearly call for any of us to depart from it.

You've dug yourself such a deep hole, I've honestly lost track of what point you're even trying to argue. I can only handle so much parrot-talk, Jal.

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
You didn't respond to my comment on the problem it creates being similar to universalism(the analogy with the tribal people)or the example involving atheists. All you did was throw a fit over my comparison and, as I said, put words in my mouth.

Furthermore I am a SHE. I doubt any man on here would have a cartoon cat with its butt sticking out of a box as a pfp.

Why should I respond to your critique of a principle that you LIVE by? How can I possibly consider it to be a valid critique?

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
You've dug yourself such a deep hole, I've honestly lost track of what point you're even trying to argue. I can only handle so much parrot-talk, Jal.

Tacit acknowledgement that you can't find ONE exception to the rule.

Seems to me you're the one who has dug himself into a hole. You're not fooling anyone.

theoneandonlypencil · Apr 21, 2020

JAL said:
Why should I respond to your critique of a principle that you LIVE by? How can I possibly consider it to be a valid critique?

What you live by has nothing to do with truth. Saying that I live by 'I do what I believe is right' and/or 'X is evil, Y is good' does not mean that I am following the right thing--the GODLY thing. What are you even trying to argue here?

YouAreAwesome · Apr 21, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
The Voice of JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD!

Exactly. Does He speak to hearts today?

JAL · Apr 21, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
We've already covered at least five different times why the maxim doesn't work here.

And not one SPECIFIC scenario where we should depart from the maxim.

WHY SOLA SCRIPTURA MAKES SENSE - A REBUTTAL

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