Why Sola Scriptura isn't God's plan

laconicstudent · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
Heterodox definition.

Not in agreement with accepted beliefs, especially in church doctrine or dogma.

Holding unorthodox opinions.

heterodox - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

I have never considered myself a heterodox. I am an orthodox Christian.

Really? That's cool, who is your diocesan bishop?

seashale76 · Mar 20, 2011

I'll post this here too:

"What is the pillar and foundation of the Truth"? I Tim. 3:15 says it is the CHURCH, not the Bible! The Church was established before the New Testament, the New Testament flowed out of the life of the Church.

2 Thess. 2:15 speaks of "tradition" as being both oral and written, Paul makes no distinction between the authority or inspiration of the two.

If you only accept scripture, you are also ignoring oral tradition. The Church has never been confined by Scripture Alone. Everything regarding our faith is not only found in scripture.

In fact, St Paul mentioned the tradition, found NOWHERE in any scriptures, canonical, deuterocanonical, etc. of the battle of St Michael with the devil over the body of Moses! Yet, he accepted this oral tradition as a matter of fact.

Christ mentions the "seat of Moses" which is also a tradition that developed within Judaism that is outside the scriptures. He does not attack this tradition, only those who abuse what it represented.

Dont forget the story of the Ethiopian Eunuch beginning at Acts 8:26. He was reading a scroll of the Prophet Isaiah and St. Phillip asks him in verse 30: And Philip ran thither to [him], and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? To which the Eunuch replied in verse 31: And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Scripture isn't always clear to those reading it. It must be explained. This is what the Church does with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, even all of the Jews would be Christians as the Old Testament speaks of Christ, and all those who call themselves Christians and claim to follow Scripture Alone would agree (yet they curiously do not).

Ortho_Cat · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
. I am an orthodox Christian.

Ortho_Cat · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
And you still can't quantify your denomination's Traditions.

Do you want them in spreadsheet format or what?

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

ortho_cat said:
Do you want them in spreadsheet format or what?

Sure.

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

ortho_cat said:

What? Did I misspelled something?

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

laconicstudent said:
Really? That's cool, who is your diocesan bishop?

Jesus.

Standing Up · Mar 20, 2011

seashale76 said:
I'll post this here too:

"What is the pillar and foundation of the Truth"? I Tim. 3:15 says it is the CHURCH, not the Bible! The Church was established before the New Testament, the New Testament flowed out of the life of the Church.-snip-

but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is not the truth (necessarily).

See the difference?

Here's Irenaeus explaining it as I just did.

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.3309
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

IOW, as we've been discussing, just because there's a bishop in the church is not to say he's teaching the truth. The truth is written down in scripture and he's supposed to teach therefrom.

So, now we have scripture and apostolic-tied tradition working together.

Standing Up · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
What? Did I misspelled something?

He missed the Eastern part as some miss the Roman part

laconicstudent · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
Jesus.

Oh, so you aren't actually Orthodox. I don't know why you said you were, but for future reference, here are the bishops in the United States.

I'm afraid none of them are named "Jesus".

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

laconicstudent said:
Oh, so you aren't actually Orthodox. I don't know why you said you were, but for future reference, here are the bishops in the United States.

They are your bishops not mine.

laconicstudent · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
They are your bishops not mine.

Then why did you claim them in post #640?

Philothei · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
Sure.

Because our Church Tradition is so vast you can look it up here for starters Henry

Almost from the very beginning, Christians referred to the Church as the "One, Holy, Catholic [from the Greek καθολική, or universal] and Apostolic Church".[8]
Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

****Disclaimer the word Heretic Schismatic is for Historical purposes and for the sake of the convo not implies to flame others also it is well established and abide with the xyz rule. Orthos versus the "unorthodox" not the way it is explained on the forums but the one who has deviated from the EO thus orthodox belief. This of course is what the EOC believes of who is Orthodox and who is not****

Standing Up · Mar 20, 2011

Philothei said:
Because our Church Tradition is so vast you can look it up here for starters Henry

Almost from the very beginning, Christians referred to the Church as the "One, Holy, Catholic [from the Greek καθολική, or universal] and Apostolic Church".[8]
Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

****Disclaimer the word Heretic Schismatic is for Historical purposes and for the sake of the convo not implies to flame others also it is well established and abide with the xyz rule. Orthos versus the "unorthodox" not the way it is explained on the forums but the one who has deviated from the EO thus orthodox belief. This of course is what the EOC believes of who is Orthodox and who is not****

Can we all claim that disclaimer and a few modifications going forward

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

Philothei said:
Because our Church Tradition is so vast you can look it up here for starters Henry

Almost from the very beginning, Christians referred to the Church as the "One, Holy, Catholic [from the Greek καθολική, or universal] and Apostolic Church".[8]
Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

****Disclaimer the word Heretic Schismatic is for Historical purposes and for the sake of the convo not implies to flame others also it is well established and abide with the xyz rule. Orthos versus the "unorthodox" not the way it is explained on the forums but the one who has deviated from the EO thus orthodox belief. This of course is what the EOC believes of who is Orthodox and who is not****

I know what the EO believes but that, in it self, does not justify the EO's argument of the co-authority of scripture and tradition. Again, the RC has different "T"raditions than the EO which has different "T'raditions than other tradition plus scripture churches. Basically we have ONE word of God and many "T"raditions making "T"raditions subjective to which church one belongs to.

Hentenza · Mar 20, 2011

laconicstudent said:
Then why did you claim them in post #640?

Did I?

Philothei · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
I know what the EO believes but that, in it self, does not justify the EO's argument of the co-authority of scripture and tradition. Again, the RC has different "T"raditions than the EO which has different "T'raditions than other tradition plus scripture churches. Basically we have ONE word of God and many "T"raditions making "T"raditions subjective to which church one belongs to.

The reason why I would say that we do and we do not... RC came to split from EO ....The same way The Protestants came to split from the RC ...(?)

There was a split and another split... I am not saying that the traditions split..for I beleive that the traditions of the RC and the Protestants were very much the same for 1500 years. What is left is an EO church that comes straight from the 33AD. Pretty much 2,000 years. In all honesty it was historically the first Church of the Apostles. We all were the same Chruch untill 1054 were we??

So why would anyone doubt the 1054 years of common tradition as NOT be so?

Philothei · Mar 20, 2011

Standing Up said:
Can we all claim that disclaimer and a few modifications going forward

Standing Up I did not post the whole article for that reason.... And will be willing to delete it if you find it offensive in all charity here... It is in the Wiki as many here know I am not at all in favour of insulting my brothers in Christ with similar terminology.

Montalban · Mar 20, 2011

Hentenza said:
Jesus.

So when Paul talks of appointing particular men as bishops he's saying to appoint them as Jesus?

Philothei · Mar 20, 2011

I know what the EO believes but that, in it self, does not justify the EO's argument of the co-authority of scripture and tradition.

When it comes to doctrinal diviation of the truth (i.e. Arian controversy etc) then Tradition becomes a necessity IMHO. To me if one is orthodox (small o) that is because of Tradition. The councils are part of that... or we will have lots of Protestants who are Arian in their theology...so IMHO tradition as in dogma has passed into the Protestant Churches... Or the Holy Trinity... as much as someone tries to detach himself from it ... they still cannot .... Can we be orthodox Christians if we get rid of the councils? NOPE we will have to deny the canon of the Bible...too.. Makes sense??

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