Why so Many Angry Christians today ?

anonymouswho said:

I was thinking about how Light overcomes darkness, but darkness cannot overcome Light.

Click to expand...

It is understanding that Light cannot be extinguished, it can be hidden for an age but never extinguished

I used to think but now think differently that darkness is the absence of light .... it is not, it is what is seen and understood when light is hidden ..... but just because light is hidden does not mean light does not exist ..... IOW just because a candle is put under a basket does not negate the fact that the candle exists

anonymouswho said:

I agree with almost everything here. I do have one small problem. You say that eternal Judgement divides Good and Evil for all of eternity. Are you then saying that eternal hell is eternal separation from God and Yeshua? If this is true, what does this verse mean?

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" Revelation 14:10

Click to expand...

I may have to get back to the rest, but start with this:

The rain comes down upon the good and the evil, here and now, in the sight and presence of the Lamb (and the holy angels). This IS the time of His judgment. Because all else is eternal, there is no other time set aside for judgement. This is it. The Lord divides the light from the darkness day and night, everyday.

Blades said:

About 20 years ago I had an encounter with the Lord God of Hosts, totally unexpectedly, completely by surprise, however you know who it is straight away because there is no deception with him, he knows the secret of every heart, and somebody I was very much in Love with was hanging in the balance of Life and Death at that very moment, afterwards I was left jumping for Joy, because as that massive presence (that nobody wants to leave) began to recede (because my Time was not yet) I had gained insight into Gods intentions towards all people and how he really does feel about all of us, is the only way I can describe it.....1 Timothy 2:4, is true, God will have everybody be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. I have heard what I know described as Universal Salvation and reconciliation, and I personaly know or have come to the knowledge of the truth that it is Gods Great plan of Salvation. Yet I keep on Noticing all these angry Christians that hate their enemies and want to see them suffer some Eternal Torment, I wonder are these Christians The Goats that Jesus describes in Revelations, you know the ones that said they cast out Demons in his name ?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that "angry Christians" long to see anyone suffer eternal torment. However, many of us are angry that the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is being trampled underfoot, as the society we live in seems to move further and further away from the God of our Fathers.
We are angry that serious matters like salvation are being dismissed with an airy wave of the hand, when our Lord suffered so to redeem us from our own foolishness.
In 2,000 years, I think we've "watered down" the horror of the crucifixion. We've gotten so used to hearing it, that we no longer even think about it.
Can you even imagine what it was like for Him? How He prayed that evening, there in the Garden of Gethsemane, begging His Father to "take this cup from me"...but faithful even unto death..."not my will, but thine"... Can you have any idea how He dreaded what He knew was coming? Don't think He wasn't terrified. He sweat "great drops of blood" (Luke 24:44
Have you ever considered what it might be like, to be tortured the way He was...whipped with a cruel Roman "flagrum", a short whip with several single or braided leather thongs of variable lengths, in which small iron balls or sharp pieces of sheep bones were tied at intervals to cut through flesh and muscle, to the bone beneath...and that cruel crown of thorns...I shudder just thinking of it. Head wounds tend to bleed freely, as I can testify from experience, they are quite painful. I doubt there are many modern men today who would have survived the night, let alone what was to come next...
Nailed up to a cross...cruel spikes driven through the flesh of His hands and feet...ripping through flesh, tearing through muscle, shredding veins, cutting through tendons, shattering bone...and then, left to hang there, muscles stretched beyond the limit, tortured tendons snapping, bones pulling out of joint, twisting in agony as the lungs scream for air...
I doubt whether many modern men would survive even being tied up in that position for very long, even without the spikes.
How He must love us, to endure all of that for our sakes. This is the punishment each of us deserves...but God, in His mercy, has provided a way for us to escape.
I seriously doubt He would have gone through all of this if the threat of eternal damnation were not real.

anonymouswho said:

As I've been discussing with my other friends on here, eternity is too strange of a concept for me to wrap my mind around. I don't believe the Greek nor the Hebrew language had anything that was equivalent to this term, especially to describe a duration of time. Timelessness would mean "no time", not "an endless amount of time", so this concept is much too strange for me.

Click to expand...

Not to worry. Starting with perfection, imagine no effect of time, no deterioration; days without darkness, no valley or down-side, just one high point to the next, all the good, like fond memories.

anonymouswho said:

I do not believe the soul is eternal. God knew Jeremiah before He was born, but this doesn't imply that He had conversations with Jeremiah before He "sent" him to the earth. This simply means that Jeremiah was planned to be born at that specific time to carry out the Will of God, and God had been patiently waiting for Jeremiah to come. So, I believe God knew me before He created the Universe, even though I did not exist when He began Creation.

Click to expand...

God CAN create something from nothing. God knowing us before, is more a description of the "all-knowing" aspect of timeless eternity. But because the word of God is spoken to those of us who are not all-knowing, He alludes to his own perspective, as a Father speaking to a child. Likewise, the explanation of "tomorrow" to a toddler, is a matter that takes time to grasp. Time, is for just such a purpose.

anonymouswho said:

Why can darkness not be restored to light?

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1:4

Nobody had a single clue why Yeshua had come. They couldn't comprehend how this was the Messiah that had been promised to them. Peter and the rest of the Apostles had no clue what Yeshua was talking about, and they always had to ask what His parables meant. They were full of darkness.

"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matthew 6:22

The darkness is not eliminated, it is filled with Light. After that Light enters, it lights up the whole body. We will still have things standing in the way of the Light, giving off shadows. But once all of these things are burned away by the refining Fire of this Light, the shadows disappear.

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:117

"Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness." Jeremiah 13:16

"To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." Acts 26:18

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" Ephesians 5:8

We have all lived in darkness. We have all walked through the valley of the shadow of death. God did not eliminate us, He had mercy on us. He will have mercy on all of mankind, because He is the Creator of all things.

"Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:4

Click to expand...

You almost answered your own question, but then reverted back. You say that "God did not eliminate us..." but He did. He caused us to die in our sins (darkness), and offered us new birth in the spirit of God, a [completely] NEW creation. The old man of darkness is dead, and returns to the earth as dust. The earth is "passing away" because we in our darkness are passing away, and in its place is the Light of Christ, in whom there is NO darkness. Darkness passes away, and is no more.

TheBarrd said:

I seriously doubt He would have gone through all of this if the threat of eternal damnation were not real.

Click to expand...

Great point! If God were speaking idle warnings, life could have just as well been like a scary movie of traffic fatalities to keep us fearful and respectfully walking the straight and narrow. Thank God, it's not!

ScottA said:

Great point! If God were speaking idle warnings, life could have just as well been like a scary movie of traffic fatalities to keep us fearful and respectfully walking the straight and narrow. Thank God, it's not!

Click to expand...

Thank you, Scott.
I think that, if more Christians would actually think about what the crucifixion actually meant to His suffering, we would have more appreciation for our salvation, and a deeper understanding of just what we are being saved from.
We've heard the words for so long that they have lost their meaning for us.

For myself, I cannot, in good conscience, assume that all the
suffering Jesus endured would, ultimately, only win him a
fraction of souls saved at the end of it all.

I can't ponder what he went through and then turn around
and declare that, in spite of all that (!) most of the people for
whom he went through that will be lost anyway, making the
title of Savior of "the world" merely an exaggeration.

Nope, can't do it. Not anymore.


-

Christus Discipulus said:

If everyone is going to heaven, why would it matter what people do? Eat, drink and be merry.

Click to expand...

Not everyone enters into this world on a equal basis. We are told that in Heaven people receive rewards or they suffer loss based on what they do here in this life.

1 cor 3 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved.

Universalism sounds very nice yet the Bible tends to teach annihilation. For example: "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person". "wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction."

Destruction (734 Occurrences)

jugghead said:

It is understanding that Light cannot be extinguished, it can be hidden for an age but never extinguished

I used to think but now think differently that darkness is the absence of light .... it is not, it is what is seen and understood when light is hidden ..... but just because light is hidden does not mean light does not exist ..... IOW just because a candle is put under a basket does not negate the fact that the candle exists

Click to expand...

I agree. I don't believe darkness is just the absence of light. I talked with an atheist that told me this shows that the Scriptures are not scientifically accurate, because God says He creates darkness.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

I don't believe darkness is just nothingness. I believe when Light is not present, darkness fills the space. If God is Light, and there is no darkness in Him, then darkness could not have existed before God created it. And if God has to create it, does this not make darkness a thing?

Darkness cannot be measured, yet Science says most of the Universe consists if "dark matter" and "dark energy". I usually don't care what Scientist say, but I do find this interesting. What does this mean?

Thanks my friend and God bless.

chaela said:

For myself, I cannot, in good conscience, assume that all the
suffering Jesus endured would, ultimately, only win him a
fraction of souls saved at the end of it all.

I can't ponder what he went through and then turn around
and declare that, in spite of all that (!) most of the people for
whom he went through that will be lost anyway, making the
title of Savior of "the world" merely an exaggeration.

Nope, can't do it. Not anymore.


-

Click to expand...

What world did He save, the old, or the new?

.

ScottA said:

What world did He save, the old, or the new?

Click to expand...

Both; everyone who died in Adam; the old, the new, and
everyone in between. (1 Corinthians 15:22; 1 Timothy 4:10;
Romans 5...).

-

-

chaela said:

Both; everyone who died in Adam; the old, the new, and
everyone in between. (1 Corinthians 15:22; 1 Timothy 4:10;
Romans 5...).

-

-

Click to expand...

So then, it is your claim that the [old] world is NOT passing away as the scriptures say?

ScottA said:

So then, it is your claim that the [old] world is NOT passing away as the scriptures say?

Click to expand...

Is the context of [old] world in your post the world the people live in or the people themselves?

I believe the context in which Chaela used it is the people, not the world they live in.

jugghead said:

Is the context of [old] world in your post the world the people live in or the people themselves?

I believe the context in which Chaela used it is the people, not the world they live in.

Click to expand...

My question was about the world, not the people. But the people are the greater part of this aspect of the discussion, which is where I was going. The one is relative to the other, so walking through it is a process. I believe that if one walks through the scriptures regarding the passing away of the world, it substantiates the passing away also of "the old man" of flesh. If we can then agree that the flesh is also passing away...because the flesh returns to the earth, that is passing away...then we can move the conversation forward to discuss the end result of salvation, whether it is universal or not.

jugghead said:

I believe the context in which Chaela used it is the people, not the world they live in.

Click to expand...

That would be correct, yes.

-

ScottA said:

So then, it is your claim that the [old] world is NOT passing away as the scriptures say?

Click to expand...

Only our perception of it passes away, to give way to the new. As all things become new to us in God through Christ.

ScottA said:

My question was about the world, not the people. But the people are the greater part of this aspect of the discussion, which is where I was going. The one is relative to the other, so walking through it is a process. I believe that if one walks through the scriptures regarding the passing away of the world, it substantiates the passing away also of "the old man" of flesh. If we can then agree that the flesh is also passing away...because the flesh returns to the earth, that is passing away...then we can move the conversation forward to discuss the end result of salvation, whether it is universal or not.

Click to expand...

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
This word elements is interesting, it means rudiments....

Rudiments
The elementary stages of any subject (usually plural)
The remains of a body part that was functional at an earlier stage of life

To me this speaks of what The first Adam brought into this world, ex. principles and works.
G4747
Elements
στοιχεῖον
stoicheion
stoy-khi'-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4748; something orderly in arrangement, that is, (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively): - element, principle, rudiment.

There are only Two natures spoken of in scripture, The first Adam and The Last Adam.
1Co_15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Who has not borne the image of the earthy? None of us.
This sounds Universal to me.

2KnowHim said:

Only our perception of it passes away, to give way to the new. As all things become new to us in God through Christ.

Click to expand...

Okay, next question: Since your flesh returns to the earth...is it (your flesh) passing away?

2KnowHim said:

There are only Two natures spoken of in scripture, The first Adam and The Last Adam.
1Co_15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Who has not borne the image of the earthy? None of us.
This sounds Universal to me.

Click to expand...

The context in Paul's statement is "we", meaning we who are in Christ, having been born again of the spirit of God.

The subject of the passage is the resurrection of the dead, which is indeed "all" as you assert, but specifically and only "all" who are in Christ. He does not elaborate on the specifics of the dead who are NOT in Christ...therefore the passage cannot be used in reference to them.

Elsewhere in multiple scriptures it is clear that "all' indeed do rise, but all are NOT given eternal life, some are given to eternal damnation, namely Satan and his followers.

ScottA said:

The context in Paul's statement is "we", meaning we who are in Christ, having been born again of the spirit of God.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you are mistaken, this is All inclusive.
when he says, as in Adam All die, so In Christ shall All be made Alive, ....it's because of what He has accomplished, it's not according to our acceptance, it just IS. That's what Paul is talking about in this ch.

And as we have All borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bare the image of the heavenly, this is All inclusive.
I ask you...who is it that has Not borne the image of the earthy?