Why should one care if ''God'' exists?

juvenissun · Aug 4, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Lack of belief is not rejection, I cannot reject something I don't perceive as real.

To an invitation, not to accept is to reject. No middle ground.

Noxot · Aug 4, 2014

Deidre32 said:
I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead of asking Christians to show evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life? (It's not in my opinion, but I'm interested in learning from Christians here, why they feel otherwise)

Thanks!

people only reject god on a superficial level, on the most outward of realities....

humans do not reject him on the deeper internal level for even in the rejection of him they affirm they want him but they reject their own or others perceptions of him. everyone seeks desire, truth, love, knowledge, pleasure, music or whatever else you want to call it.

some think everything is based on a physical reality perspective because they don't understand that the object world is just a creative movement of a reality that people sometimes call "spirit". in time science will progress enough to be set free from its current understanding of reality. it is, after all, changing all the time.

most people think they have a solid understanding of reality but I would say there is a lot more that we do not know than that we do know. this is an endless darkness that anyone standing in the power of their own light can not see through enough. by only his own light he shall never penetrate through though it can be a start to understanding some things. this is why we must see through Gods eye to see God and in seeing God we find ourselves in a greater light as well.

the light of God is both darkness and light. blinding bright light if you will. everything, all of reality is light and it all points to God but our weak eyes see reality only in-part and we create divisions of reality based on our limited comprehensions of reality.

people don't even know themselves, much less the reality they exist in. I don't know me fully but I feel like a dead bird floating in outer space - full of grace and freedom and love. it is fun living in this reality, this mystery of humanity.

Aldebaran · Aug 4, 2014

Deidre32 said:
It can also be argued that altruism is a byproduct from or in direct correlation with evolution. If we look at other animal species, they all exhibit altruism. Well, maybe with the exception of the black widow spider. lol

It isn't only a human trait, to look out for the good of the whole, the best for others, sacrificing ourselves. It's an evolutionary trait, perhaps?

In the best of times, this may be the case. But what do we see people do when times get tough? That's when their true nature becomes obvious. The same neighbor who used to talk to you over the fence will kill you if it means feeding his family and himself if the civility of society were to break down in a "Mad Max" type scenario.

It's easy to be nice to others when things are going well.

bhsmte · Aug 4, 2014

juvenissun said:
To an invitation, not to accept is to reject. No middle ground.

What invitation?

Do you have an invitation to become muslim, that you reject?

Noxot · Aug 4, 2014

the invitation.

the ideas of perfect love and peace and freedom are far above the current mindsets of this world. they can not conform to them because something is very wrong with many of the people in this world to some degree. it is a battle of good and evil in all. between necessity and freedom. between fear and love. between insanity and sanity.

bhsmte · Aug 4, 2014

Noxot said:
the invitation.

the ideas of perfect love and peace and freedom are far above the current mindsets of this world. they can not conform to them because something is very wrong with many of the people in this world to some degree. it is a battle of good and evil in all. between necessity and freedom. between fear and love. between insanity and sanity.

There are plenty of people who live a life of peace and love who do not believe in a god, as difficult as it may be for you to accept that.

I always get a kick, out of believers who claim to know what is going on inside the mind of a non believer, in regards to their mindset.

Noxot · Aug 4, 2014

bhsmte said:
There are plenty of people who live a life of peace and love who do not believe in a god, as difficult as it may be for you to accept that.

I always get a kick, out of believers who claim to know what is going on inside the mind of a non believer, in regards to their mindset.

and so they accept God to some degree on an internal level but do not accept God on a superficial level. you don't know me and I don't know you but I know we are the same at our core.

Deidre32 · Aug 4, 2014

Noxot said:
and so they accept God to some degree on an internal level but do not accept God on a superficial level. you don't know me and I don't know you but I know we are the same at our core.

Hello,

Can you clarify what you mean by superficial, as it relates to what you're saying?

Deidre32 · Aug 4, 2014

bhsmte said:
There are plenty of people who live a life of peace and love who do not believe in a god, as difficult as it may be for you to accept that.

I always get a kick, out of believers who claim to know what is going on inside the mind of a non believer, in regards to their mindset.

I'm always looking for the "like" feature with your posts. Lol

Yes, good point. It seems awfully presumptuous to be sure.

Aldebaran · Aug 4, 2014

Noxot said:
and so they accept God to some degree on an internal level but do not accept God on a superficial level. you don't know me and I don't know you but I know we are the same at our core.

Deidre, you should listen to this guy.

Noxot · Aug 4, 2014

Deidre32 said:
Hello,

Can you clarify what you mean by superficial, as it relates to what you're saying?

this can help to distinguish what I am trying to say:

Matt 21:28-32 (YLT)
`And what think ye? A man had two children, and having come to the first, he said, Child, go, to-day be working in my vineyard.' And he answering said, `I will not,' but at last, having repented, he went. `And having come to the second, he said in the same manner, and he answering said, I go , sir, and went not; which of the two did the will of the father?' They say to him, `The first.' Jesus saith to them, `Verily I say to you, that the tax-gatherers and the harlots do go before you into the reign of God, for John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye did not believe him, and the tax-gatherers and the harlots did believe him, and ye, having seen, repented not at last--to believe him.

John 4:23-24 (YLT)
but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him; God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'

superficial. the part of a person that really does not care though he says he does... who is always wondering what kind of rewards for doing good he shall have. the guy that does not believe in God but..... that other inner part of him who believes in God because of his innocent heart and good things he sometimes does to others for no other reason than because it is good to do good.

'superficial' is the outside part of a person. I am more concerned with the inner growings of a person rather than the outside which will become better as the inside becomes better.

Matt 23:25-28 (YLT)
`Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye make clean the outside of the cup and the plate, and within they are full of rapine and incontinence. `Blind Pharisee! cleanse first the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside of them also may become clean. `Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye are like to whitewashed sepulchres, which outwardly indeed do appear beautiful, and within are full of bones of dead men, and of all uncleanness; so also ye outwardly indeed do appear to men righteous, and within ye are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

we have all been ^ at times... in our own ways. and we are all on different parts of our spiritual path, whether you affirm you walk a spiritual path or not. all of life is a spiritual walk and we are either dying or living. there is always some spark of divine fire in all people and it is impossible to always snuff out his voice. we are all spiritual as much as we are good and loving and anyone seeking finds. but the superficial parts of us can hold us back in one way or another.

'superficial' is the 'flesh' and the inner depths of the goodness of a person is their unique spirit.

bhsmte · Aug 5, 2014

Noxot said:
and so they accept God to some degree on an internal level but do not accept God on a superficial level. you don't know me and I don't know you but I know we are the same at our core.

Correct, you don't know others, so how can you claim non-believers accept God on an internal level?

Eudaimonist · Aug 5, 2014

Noxot said:
everyone seeks desire, truth, love, knowledge, pleasure, music or whatever else you want to call it.

Is this your argument:

Desire, truth, love, knowledge, pleasure, and music are of divine origin.
All human beings seek these values.
Therefore, we human beings already value God.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Noxot · Aug 5, 2014

bhsmte said:
Correct, you don't know others, so how can you claim non-believers accept God on an internal level?

because in being united to God I can tell that everyone else is united to him as well.

Noxot · Aug 5, 2014

Eudaimonist said:
Is this your argument:

Desire, truth, love, knowledge, pleasure, and music are of divine origin.
All human beings seek these values.
Therefore, we human beings already value God.

eudaimonia,

Mark

right and from the fallen point of view of humanity they will only see the crystallized version of this and come to conclusions that are based on the idea of the universe being a certain way or is self contained and not a product of some other kind of reality that we have hardly began to comprehend even though it leaks through all the time as it is right underneath the reality that most of you think is "real", as this 'eternal thing' that I call reality which can also be called "spirit" is holding up that which is more unstable ( our universe ) which is why it is naturally being reabsorbed back into that which it came out of as it is of its own nature to return to that which gave birth to it. or you can think that spirit is a programming language that contains all of its code in itself but is expressing itself in any manner it chooses to as opposed to all ways which would only be possibilities rather than actual realities. I call it "freedom" but it is a freedom with intelligence and divine creativity whos chief purpose has always been love and joy.

single eye · Aug 5, 2014

if our goal is to "live a good and productive life" then there are a multitude of ways to get there. If we desire to elevate our goal to finding and accomplishing what we came here for, then we must understand and believe Jesus. In other words, we must find the straight gate and narrow way.

bhsmte · Aug 5, 2014

Noxot said:
because in being united to God I can tell that everyone else is united to him as well.

How can you tell to the point of knowing other people's inner most feelings?

Deidre32 · Aug 5, 2014

I want to thank you guys for replying as you have. I'm on my phone and its hard to quite and reply etc...but I will later.

I'm thinking that I should have worded my OP differently. Thinking it through, maybe what I meant was "why do you feel a need to believe in a higher power?"

I was raised in a Christian home but this question night be good for converts to the faith to reply to since they weren't indoctrinated as kids. I'm of the opinion, when its thrust upon you in childhood, you have no choice to say no. But to convert in adulthood becomes a choice and I'm curious as to why someone would think believing in a higher power is necessary to having a "better" life?

I'll bbl.

Deidre32 · Aug 5, 2014

Ignore my typos please ^^

Jeremy E Walker · Aug 5, 2014

Deidre32 said:
are you a cave man?

So, do you believe that you need to believe in a god in order to do good in this world? If so, that is your choice, but theists and atheists have much in common in terms of wanting to live valuable, productive lives helping others. Theism didn't invent altruism.

Depends on what you mean by "do good".

Why should one care if ''God'' exists?

... and God saw that it was good.

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