Why not outright reject evolution?

My question is for those who are Christian and cling to a "theistic evolution" origins view.

The first is, why not just reject evolution and common descent? Even if evolution is true, won't God forgive you for believing what the Bible tells you. Surely you won't go to Hell if you’re a Christian and are wrong on evolution, so why not just reject evolution.

It is certainly a much nicer idea that God designed man in His own image, rather than man coming about by mutations and such (even if it was God-guided).

(Why not reject that the Universe is billions of years old? Is it not more comforting that the universe was made in 7 days, and is only less than 7,000 years old. Is that belief not more comforting then having God just "waiting" in solitude for billions of years before making men?)

If Christians reject evolution, than imposing Christian morality is justifiable. If we believe that we are truly different than beasts, it is easier to justify the suppression of animalistic instincts such as want of sex, violence, and power. If w accept that we are the descendents of beasts, then why punish someone for following instinct?

So why don't you theistic evolutionists pick a side. I'd rather choose to believe what the Bible says about Creation (or believe atheistic evolution) then to choose to believe that God guided this supposedly natural process.

Why the heck would God make the world in a way that made it look like he did not?!

So why not reject evolution (and the Big Bang) lets all be true to the faith. Let us believe that the world is young, man was created, and what the heck, how about a flat Earth too (just in case gravity fails).

Even if we are wrong, God will forgive us for this, and it makes life a heck of a lot easier to live. Why reconcile God w/ science.

If there is no God we loose.

But if there is God and we are wrong for rejecting science, we still win.

So let us Christians just form our own country, abolish the scientific method, and live simply.

Who is with me (I am serious).

I hope this makes sense, I wrote it kinda fast.

Thanks for reading this

If you read the Bible properly, then there is ne conflict between science and Biblical truth.

Hello!

Excatly what Macca said really, and to be honest I think Theistic Evolution has more than it's fair share of issues, more so than the vanilla flavoured Evolution as it has to fit a shaky framework with an unchangeble written account... now that takes some effort. Christians that adopt such a stance have to be very lenient in their interpretation of the Bible, and I am not certain why they feel the need to do so, perhaps the big old Evolution monster is scaring them, I am unsure in all honesty.

I really believe people need to give up on this seperation between the Bible and science, it causes too many issues and has no foundation whatsoever. We all have the facts and evidence, nothing can or ever will change that. This igonorant belief that Christians don't believe in science, or that the two aren't compatible is such a tragic shame, as it causes so many arguments and so much confusion and doubt.

Digit

cairaiii said:

My question is for those who are Christian and cling to a "theistic evolution" origins view.

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Hello. Although I'm not an adamant evolutionist, my beliefs lean towards it, so I'll have a crack at it.

The first is, why not just reject evolution and common descent? Even if evolution is true, won't God forgive you for believing what the Bible tells you. Surely you won't go to Hell if you’re a Christian and are wrong on evolution, so why not just reject evolution.

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You're asking why I don't deny what I think to be true, "just in case"? I'll start off by saying that I believe that God is the ultimate truth, and wherever you find truth, you find a piece of God. I believe that in seeking truth, we're seeking God. Of course He won't send someone to Hell just because they have an incorrect view of how the world came to be, regardless of if they're creationist or evolutionist. In the end, how you think things started really doesn't matter.

It is certainly a much nicer idea that God designed man in His own image, rather than man coming about by mutations and such (even if it was God-guided).

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I don't follow. How He designed us is the same, no matter how He ended up turning that design into reality.

(Why not reject that the Universe is billions of years old? Is it not more comforting that the universe was made in 7 days, and is only less than 7,000 years old. Is that belief not more comforting then having God just "waiting" in solitude for billions of years before making men?)

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Again, belief is about more than what's comforting. Belief is about what an individual thinks is true, regardless of how that makes them feel.

If Christians reject evolution, than imposing Christian morality is justifiable. If we believe that we are truly different than beasts, it is easier to justify the suppression of animalistic instincts such as want of sex, violence, and power. If w accept that we are the descendents of beasts, then why punish someone for following instinct?

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The fact that we can suppress our "animalistic instincts" is proof that we are indeed different than animals. I'll admit that I don't know when, why, or how it happened, but somewhere along the line, something changed in us.

So why don't you theistic evolutionists pick a side. I'd rather choose to believe what the Bible says about Creation (or believe atheistic evolution) then to choose to believe that God guided this supposedly natural process.

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Genesis is about much, much, much more than simply how the universe came to exist. Genesis spends two chapters describing Creation, but, while there's truth communicated in that account, it's still a setup for the next forty-eight chapters of the book.

So why not reject evolution (and the Big Bang) lets all be true to the faith. Let us believe that the world is young, man was created, and what the heck, how about a flat Earth too (just in case gravity fails).

Even if we are wrong, God will forgive us for this, and it makes life a heck of a lot easier to live. Why reconcile God w/ science.

If there is no God we loose.

But if there is God and we are wrong for rejecting science, we still win.

So let us Christians just form our own country, abolish the scientific method, and live simply.

Who is with me (I am serious).

I hope this makes sense, I wrote it kinda fast.

Thanks for reading this

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You seem to think that God eager to send people to Hell, almost like He's waiting for that one thing that will justify (in some convoluted meaning of the word) eternal punishment. I really don't think the God described as being love would act that way.

I'll say it again: Seek truth, and you're seeking God. Find truth, and you've found God.

Coder said:

Science has not yet had the chance to fully prove or disprove Evolutionary Theory. Thus far, Science has not only been able to fully define the theory, but it has committed decades to research and testing based on empirical data. These results show not only possible links but proven links between lower life-forms and modern humans; it has been proven that not only are we closely related genetically to Primates, but we are even more closer genetically related to Canines (dogs) in some areas of the Genome(s).

As a Christian I believe in God\Jesus; I tend to believe also that this same Creator\ Father used the Big Bang to form the Universe and Evolution to develop Homo Sapiens.

Who is to say what method God used to create the Universe, Life, and Modern man\ woman? We honestly do not truly know (yet).

Kind Regards,
Matty

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Evolutionary scientists continue to change the standards of testing.
The OT has been set down for thousands of years describing the beginnings; no changes!

cairaiii said:

My question is for those who are Christian and cling to a "theistic evolution" origins view.

The first is, why not just reject evolution and common descent? Even if evolution is true, won't God forgive you for believing what the Bible tells you. Surely you won't go to Hell if you’re a Christian and are wrong on evolution, so why not just reject evolution.

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Why would I reject something without good reason? The scientific evidence in favour of evolution is overwhelming, and it's not conflict with the Christian faith.

It is certainly a much nicer idea that God designed man in His own image, rather than man coming about by mutations and such (even if it was God-guided).

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The two are both true - they are describing different aspects of the same thing.

(Why not reject that the Universe is billions of years old? Is it not more comforting that the universe was made in 7 days, and is only less than 7,000 years old.

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No. I don't find any reason to regard that as any more comforting. I would regard the idea that they universe is not consistant and predictable very scary, however.

Is that belief not more comforting then having God just "waiting" in solitude for billions of years before making men?)

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No. God is patient.

If Christians reject evolution, than imposing Christian morality is justifiable. If we believe that we are truly different than beasts, it is easier to justify the suppression of animalistic instincts such as want of sex, violence, and power. If w accept that we are the descendents of beasts, then why punish someone for following instinct?

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I don't belive in playing fast and loose with the truth just to further my own agenda.

So why don't you theistic evolutionists pick a side.

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Because there aren't two sides. You show me two unrelated truths and ask me to only accept one of them when they are not in conflict.

I'd rather choose to believe what the Bible says about Creation (or believe atheistic evolution) then to choose to believe that God guided this supposedly natural process.

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That's your choice - I'll settle for the truth. (Note. that "God guided this supposedly natural process" is an extremely poor summary of the T.E. position. "Natural processes are God in action" would be much closer.)

Why the heck would God make the world in a way that made it look like he did not?!

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The world looks the way the world looks. Take it or leave it.

Even if we are wrong, God will forgive us for this, and it makes life a heck of a lot easier to live. Why reconcile God w/ science.

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They don't need to be reconciled - they aren't in conflict. But reject science and one must reject all the benefits we gain from it. To claim something is false and continue to use it would be intellectually dishonest.

If there is no God we loose.

But if there is God and we are wrong for rejecting science, we still win.

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If rejecting all the products of science, such as medicine, is a win...

So let us Christians just form our own country, abolish the scientific method, and live simply.

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No medicine, no engineering, no geology so no oil or minerals, no ... Without science you reduce to the dark ages, and most of the world's population has to go.

I don't believe everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. I believe that there are layers of interpretation e.g. literal, metaphorical etc. This not least because the Bible is clearly made up of different kinds of texts e.g. poetry, laws, history, prayers etc.

So for me there is no issue with taking Genesis metaphorically; thus God makes the Big bang happen and the rest follows as explained by science. The fact that God can set the balance of energy and matter in the universe so precisely that we got what we got truly amazes me and makes me worship Him all the more. More than some magician in the sky who waved a magic wand and it made it all appear in 6 days.

Like John Stott, I do believe that Adam and Eve represent the first religious man and woman, compared to more primitive ancestors.

I know some people here will seriously disagree with me; I trust just as I respect your point of view, you will respect mine. Thank you.

I got chewed out by a couple biologists over this subject very recently...

I'm a Young-earth Creationist, but that doesn't mean that I should so simply dismiss the idea of evolution (confused yet?).

Evolution is the name for the process by which animals adapt to their environment; what most refer to as adaptation. Evolution happens, and can actually be observed "in action".

What I don't believe happened is that Man evolved from anything, or that all animals came from one source, or even that land animals came originally from the sea- that objects my scriptural beliefs, where "evolution" doesn't.

I finally understand what people mean when they say evolution doesn't contradict even a literal view of the Bible (like mine), and I have to agree.

Well I for one.. have ended up rejecting the Theory of Evolution because I have embraced the Scientific method.

Just as I have rejected the Big Bang, because I took the time to learn about it. Amazing what an hour in the Library and some cross referencing will do to destroy theories like this.

See, Science will answer the questions, and Science will expose the truth as far as it can, by the limits that it has, and by embracing science, I have ended up rejecting myths like "Theory of Evolution" in this case, and the situation you have set up...

I see a win win... really.

Not only do we gain purity of science, but equally so, we gain removal of wasted junk science.

God Bless

Key

Well frankly, cairaiii, I have to say I am as bewildered by that as you are.

I have to agree with what Key, post #10, says. Science poses no problem for my faith. The majority of the conclusions reached by scientific method are valid and useful. However, in my search into the concept of evolution, I have found that assumptions are made that just have no foundation in scientific method. This of course is not the fault of scientific method, but rather a misinterpretation of the evidence by researchers striving to make it fit a foregone conclusion. It is a classic example of misapplication of scientific method.

But back to the spirit of the OP, if I believe in the God of the Bible in the first place, then I am to believe in a God whom the Bible describes as the all-powerful creator of all that there is, eternal, unchanging, all-knowing, just, and in whom there is no deceit or lying. Why should I find it hard to believe that God simply said "Let there be....," and there it was? I mean, that's what God said happened. Should I deny that he has the power? Or should I believe that he didn't mean what he said? That is, by the way, what the serpent tempted Eve into believing. No, believing God is true to his word is a fundamental part of my faith. If I can't take him at his word concerning the creation, then I can't believe anything he has told me in His Word. I can't believe the Biblical record of all the other miraculous things he has done. I can't even believe in his promise of salvation through His Son.

"In the beginning God...." is the foundation for faith. These first few chapters of the Bible introduce us to God, his eternal character, his power, his love, his mercy, his desires for mankind. If I am to have faith in God, if I am to believe in his promise of salvation through Jesus Christ, I have to believe in him from the beginning of the Bible to the end. Totally, without reservation.

I do flat out reject it. But there are related ideas which are true. Such as natural selection. And the idea that all breeds of Dog for example came from a common dog ancestor, But still a dog none the less. But the idea that a mutation could possibly form a new organ or eventually turn an amoeba in to a cow is far fetched.

As much as the secular world would like you to believe the opposite Evolution is not scientific fact. There are no scientific facts which contradict the Bible. There are theories and ideas but no facts. And we must be careful not to compromise the perfect word of the all-knowing, all-mighty God for the opinions of fallible, imperfect human beings.

Why would somebody reject truth for God's sake? What purpose would it serve?

Um, there is no reason to reject evolution at all in order to be christian. If it makes scientific sense, it just doesn't add anything if you reject it.

If it contradicts the perfect word of God then it's wrong. God's word is perfect. As a Christian you must trust that God's word is perfect and true. What logical since does it make to compromise the perfect word of God, who was there, with the fallible opinions of fallen limited man who was not there?

Defuret said:

Um, there is no reason to reject evolution at all in order to be christian. If it makes scientific sense, it just doesn't add anything if you reject it.

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I will agree, rejecting Evolution or accepting it, has no bearing on your faith. That is true.

However, I rejected Evolution, Long before I became a Christian.

I tell you, when you really look into it, and cross reference, and study it, it starts to become unglued.

God Bless

Key

P.S. thats what the amish do . Better yet, lets look and see that all of the darwinist calims are so far-fetched that they have to make a new version of the theory about 6 times a day.

Key said:

Well I for one.. have ended up rejecting the Theory of Evolution because I have embraced the Scientific method.

Just as I have rejected the Big Bang, because I took the time to learn about it. Amazing what an hour in the Library and some cross referencing will do to destroy theories like this.

See, Science will answer the questions, and Science will expose the truth as far as it can, by the limits that it has, and by embracing science, I have ended up rejecting myths like "Theory of Evolution" in this case, and the situation you have set up...

I see a win win... really.

Not only do we gain purity of science, but equally so, we gain removal of wasted junk science.

God Bless

Key

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I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

How can you reject two scientific theories if you have 'embraced the scientific method'?

I'm not really a theistic evolutionist. I lean towards young earth creationism, but it's not really an issue that's close to my heart. God made it, that's the important part. Whether it was in less than a week or over millennia, neither is beyond Him.

cairaiii said:

Why the heck would God make the world in a way that made it look like he did not?!

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This assumes that today's science is the final say in the matter. But science itself can't claim that, since it is self-correcting. Who knows, there could be a discovery in 200 years that will shred there untestable theories of an old world and an old universe.

cairaiii said:

So let us Christians just form our own country, abolish the scientific method, and live simply.

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The scientific method isn't bad. The error in evolutionist thinking is that much of their conclusions are untestable. How are you going to give macroevolution a proper test? Nobody lives for millions of years at a time, and there are so many gaping holes in the so-called evolutionary chain that it's a pretty wild conclusion to say that "this species evolved from that one." And yet, it's hung onto as absolute fact, as religious faith. Mention "irreducible complexity" and it's like hitting a hornet's nest.

MaragonEvolved said:

How can you reject two scientific theories if you have 'embraced the scientific method'?

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I already talked about evolution, see my answer above. As for the Big Bang, who was around to observe it? Who can test it?

Christians that adopt such a stance have to be very lenient in their interpretation of the Bible, and I am not certain why they feel the need to do so, perhaps the big old Evolution monster is scaring them, I am unsure in all honesty.

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Christians adopt the stance because the scientists have been working themselves up into a lather trying to get a groupthink going on in terms of evolution. They talk about it as if it isnt even a question anymore, and thus, Christians, not wanting to be regarded as ignorant, jump on without knowing better. It is all a matter of how well informed a person is on the subject.