Why not be a prodigal son?

[FlaviusAetius]

Or in other words, what's the point of being the good son who remains faithful to the Father the entire time?

The parable is actually quite perfect in showing how aloof God is to his loyal followers. The good son complains to his father that he has been faithful and yet his desires are denied, such as when he wanted to have a goat to share with his friends for a meal. The only benefit that is gained is an assured inheritance (IE salvation), but even that's not assured since we're a worthless fallen creation that may sin and die immediately after.

Seems your better off enjoying the sins of the world, kill whatever you want, indulge in every pleasure and then when you've had your fill just turn to God who will give you favored status over his faithful followers who denied themselves practically everything that comes natural to human nature.

Where is the justice of being equal in heaven to the man who only died a Christian rather than lived it?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

what's the point of being the good son who remains faithful to the Father the entire time?

My 5 cents worth. We all need to focus on our own path, our own journey without comparing ourselves to others. Was the "good" son so good? You could say he had the sins of pride and envy. Some of us who lead "righteous" lives by going to church every Sunday, taking Communion regularly, not getting in trouble with law, may lack kindness or compassion for example. The prodigal son had become humble and repentant. God seems to really love humility and repentance.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

My 5 cents worth. We all need to focus on our own path, our own journey without comparing ourselves to others. Was the "good" son so good? You could say he had the sins of pride and envy. Some of us who lead "righteous" lives by going to church every Sunday, taking Communion regularly, not getting in trouble with law, may lack kindness or compassion for example. The prodigal son had become humble and repentant. God seems to really love humility and repentance.

Seems to just agree with my notion then. If lives of restraint and following God's rules are meaningless because God doesn't keep track of how long you were faithful then caring about the rules is a waste of life and effort. Why stress about not sinning if years later you can mentally believe your sorry after having gained all the benefits from sin already?

Examples

Catholic couple use birth control to space their family out and then after menopause both confess this sin after benefiting from not having unwanted kids. Why should the couple who were open to life their whole marriage be considered equal to the couple who confess after benefiting from being closed to life most of their marriage?

Rich man makes millions off the suffering of others but has a change of heart. He donates time and money to good works but at the end of the day is still rich from past blood money. Assuming the man truly confesses is that fair? For honest men to live in poverty, the rich in luxury and then having God put them both on even footing in heaven?

Frankly the parable of the Master paying the early workers the same as the late workers just paints God as unjust.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I think its healthy that you're questioning it though. Not all the bible stories make sense to me either....yet.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

I think its healthy that you're questioning it though. Not all the bible stories make sense to me either....yet.

I appreciate the good nature of your replies, the attempts to answer the question and the lack of defensiveness in your posts.

 

[Davidnic]

They key is you have to be repentant for the sin. You can not say I will be sinful then confess it even though I would not take it back. There has to be true contrition and a conversion of heart not just lip service.

Sometimes penance and forgiveness involve making amends. I have known people whose penance for a sin was to rid themselves of all benefit from it as best as possible and turn their lives to God.

Also we do not get to judge God by our definition of justice. We, of course, have to use that standard in some way to understand things. But if God wills the greatest good for all people...to be with Him, then why would we quibble about moral ideas of what is fair? Fair only comes into play if we can, on our own merit, earn something.

Sin is an offense against God. If the offended party offers forgiveness then that is that. If a parent loves two children equally but one is always hurting them but later repents and changes ways they are not in some deficiency of love from the parent for their past mistakes. Yes the one who never harmed the parent, like to good son, will be upset. But in the end they must see that the joy of the parent in the child changing from harmful ways is the actual reward; if you love the parent for unselfish reasons.

God is only unjust if we feel entitled as if we can earn salvation. We can not. We do good out of love for God and others. If someone comes to that at the end of a sinful life we do not see them as less of a Christian. They are the same as us...ones who love God. Our lifetime of love is worth just as much because at that moment we love and are loved equally.

 

[Davidnic]

So it comes down to:

Why do we do good? For reward or love?
Can we earn Salvation?
In the end if two people are doing good out of love, does it matter who did it longer or does only the current equal state matter?

 

[Davidnic]

Now, of course, a lifetime of sin has lasting effect. That is why purgatory exists. So even though someone repents, there is still the temporal effect of sin. In that way there is still a difference between the two sons. And God balances that out according to His will in purgatory.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

They key is you have to be repentant for the sin. You can not say I will be sinful then confess it even though I would not take it back. There has to be true contrition and a conversion of heart not just lip service.

Sometimes penance and forgiveness involve making amends. I have known people whose penance for a sin was to rid themselves of all benefit from it as best as possible and turn their lives to God.

Also we do not get to judge God by our definition of justice. We, of course, have to use that standard in some way to understand things. But if God wills the greatest good for all people...to be with Him, then why would we quibble about moral ideas of what is fair? Fair only comes into play if we can, on our own merit, earn something.

Sin is an offense against God. If the offended party offers forgiveness then that is that. If a parent loves two children equally but one is always hurting them but later repents and changes ways they are not in some deficiency of love from the parent for their past mistakes. Yes the one who never harmed the parent, like to good son, will be upset. But in the end they must see that the joy of the parent in the child changing from harmful ways is the actual reward; if you love the parent for unselfish reasons.

God is only unjust if we feel entitled as if we can earn salvation. We can not. We do good out of love for God and others. If someone comes to that at the end of a sinful life we do not see them as less of a Christian. They are the same as us...ones who love God. Our lifetime of love is worth just as much because at that moment we love and are loved equally.

You made very good points, the analogy of a parent made logical sense to me.

However if a righteous person can still fall into sins of pride, envy, wrath due to the restrictive nature of God's will then it still seems to be a better option to live a sinful life where you let sin benefit you and hope that in the future you genuinely confess your sins.

With the two examples, would it be fair if the couple open to life became wrathful at the forgiveness of a contracepting couple and then immediately died and went to as Hell while the former birth control users got salvation?

Or the poor man burning in hell due to class envy when the rich one was forgiven for gaining wealth through evil means in his youth?

 

[Davidnic]

So a big consideration is why do we do good? If we do it for love of God over love of self then we would not say...well I will live a sinful life and get in at the end. We would not do this because we love God and carry out His will. For instance I would not say, I love my Daughter...let me spend her college fund on myself and on having fun and I will put it back later if I can. That action is counter to love.

So why not be the prodigal son? Because your time of sin is against love of God. Other considerations of what the other guy is doing and what reward or punishment does not enter into it. And if you actually love God you rejoice that the son returns because the reward is the love. Full and equal to all who accept it.

From a human logical point of view being the prodigal son makes sense only if you do not love God. And in that case you can not plan to truly love Him later. That love must be genuine.

 

[Davidnic]

You made very good points, the analogy of a parent made logical sense to me.

However if a righteous person can still fall into sins of pride, envy, wrath due to the restrictive nature of God's will then it still seems to be a better option to live a sinful life where you let sin benefit you and hope that in the future you genuinely confess your sins.

With the two examples, would it be fair if the couple open to life became wrathful at the forgiveness of a contracepting couple and then immediately died and went to as Hell while the former birth control users got salvation?

Or the poor man burning in hell due to class envy when the rich one was forgiven for gaining wealth through evil means in his youth?

Well the danger of pride or resentment is always with the faithful. The danger of seeing the "believer" as better for having believed longer. I think the problem is it is hard to plan a sinful life and then say...at around age 50 I will discover a genuine love for God and repent.

Another thing is God gives us Grace to help us and understands our failings. So just because a person may be angry due to class envy does not mean there is full culpability for a mortal sin there on the poor man. Ideally the rich man would be guided to repair the damage of his evil youth.

As far as the couple open to life getting angry and wrathful...if would be human. If that is how we are using fair...it would be fair. But remember on Good Friday the priest giving the sermon at the Vatican said: “The opposite of mercy is not justice but vengeance."

So what someone must guard against is not is not being angry and confused as the good brother was...but feeding that into a desire for vengeance. Letting it eat at them to where the abstract concept of Justice means more than eventually being happy that those who sin now love God. Because the point, no matter when or how long, is that we love God.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

So a big consideration is why do we do good? If we do it for love of God over love of self then we would not say...well I will live a sinful life and get in at the end. We would not do this because we love God and carry out His will. For instance I would not say, I love my Daughter...let me spend her college fund on myself and on having fun and I will put it back later if I can. That action is counter to love.

So why not be the prodigal son? Because your time of sin is against love of God. Other considerations of what the other guy is doing and what reward or punishment does not enter into it. And if you actually love God you rejoice that the son returns because the reward is the love. Full and equal to all who accept it.

From a human logical point of view being the prodigal son makes sense only if you do not love God. And in that case you can not plan to truly love Him later. That love must be genuine.

Fair enough but can you blame people for making salvation a self centered reward rather than a love of God.

God is a being who only gives us the choice of "love me" or "burn painfully and suffer for eternity"

Where do you personally develop love for a being that basically has a gun to humanity head demanding we love him?

 

[Davidnic]

Fair enough but can you blame people for making salvation a self centered reward rather than a love of God.

God is a being who only gives us the choice of "love me" or "burn painfully and suffer for eternity"

Where do you personally develop love for a being that basically has a gun to humanity head demanding we love him?

It's a fair question. Well if someone creates things, there is either Him or the opposite. So that is part of the nature of things. So involved in the choice to create and give free will is the existence of a negative place in opposition to the creator as an option.

But there is no easy answer. Each person comes to the love of God in their own way. Some have a gift of faith and it is easier for them. Some do not and it is a struggle. But what we believe is no one is destined to hell unless they choose their actions. And everyone is given the grace to choose to embrace God to where He wills it.

We don't know a lot and there is no use pretending we do. There is mystery because we are limited. Some people come to a love of God through a general love of goodness and good deeds, which are a reflection of Him. Some come to it through a love of others, who are also in His Image and reflection in a fashion.

So I would say if someone can not bring themselves to immediately love God for some reason they can love unconditionally in some direction and slowly move to God. But yes, it can be hard to intellectually reconcile things. And sometimes that can keep us from a deeper love. And sometimes lead us to judging God's actions in our confusion and even in our pain.

We are limited. And God understands that. When my mother died when we were children my sister was very very angry at God for a long time. And our priest told her...God is big enough for you to be angry.

 

[sarah_beloved]

Fair enough but can you blame people for making salvation a self centered reward rather than a love of God.

God is a being who only gives us the choice of "love me" or "burn painfully and suffer for eternity"

Where do you personally develop love for a being that basically has a gun to humanity head demanding we love him?

It's actually more of a "men has a debt that they would never be able to pay. I have no choice but to send my only Son as payment, because I love them so much."

If God really is a being who forces people to love them, why bother giving free will? Is this a game to Him? Mind you, it was His Son hanging on the cross.

The so called "Christian life" is not a pain to live. I've lived the past 25 years of my life indulging in a sinful lifestyle. Very, very sinful, if I may add. Yet the year of "Christian life" I've led has been the most joyful and fulfilling. I've had acquaintances who randomly told me that they've realised I'm much happier now. I consider it a great honor, as foolish and imperfect as I may be, to be His light in this world. I willingly give up on things that I know would displease Him. Not because I'm trying to be holier than thou, or because I'm afraid. But because I know it hurts God more than it hurts me, when I indulge in self destructive habits. I want to please Him. Not to earn a bigger mansion in Heaven as my reward. But because He loves me. And the best part is He loves you with this same love.

 

[Fantine]

Maybe this thread is too focused on rewards and punishments rather than our spiritual evolution, which is a reward in itself.

 

[Davidnic]

I also think most of us are far more often The Prodigal Son than the good son.

 

[Boogeyman07]

I am a 'prodigal son', so are a lot of others. God, I believe, will use my time that I spent away from Him for His glory which is awesome and it shows how great He is but I believe I could be so much further in my walk with Him if I never would have strayed, if that makes sense to you. I could have been used as a tool to advanced the Kingdom this whole time but I wavered! I stumbled, I fell, thank God for His grace but if someone asks me if I have any regrets in life...of course I do! I wish I would have been that faithful servant from day 1 and continued to be. He is my strength and I hate the thought of not being in His will or even apart from Him at all. Some Christians can say "well I have no regrets because it lead me to where I am" but I just refuse to accept that as truth... I believe by His all mighty power He restores us and gets us back in harmony with His will (and like you mentioned He rejoices at that, which proves how loving He truly is) but we could have been doing great things the whole time. Im in my 20s so I have a long life ahead as one of His servants (God-willing, I obviously have no idea), and I would not be upset or 'jealous' of someone who lives a life without Christ until the very end of their life... I would be rejoicing along with heaven and also have compassion, as I'm sure they (once seeing how awesome He is) would have some regrets about how they lived their whole life without Him. I hope that helps your understanding on how some of us may feel.

 

[godsgoond]

Or in other words, what's the point of being the good son who remains faithful to the Father the entire time?

The parable is actually quite perfect in showing how aloof God is to his loyal followers. The good son complains to his father that he has been faithful and yet his desires are denied, such as when he wanted to have a goat to share with his friends for a meal. The only benefit that is gained is an assured inheritance (IE salvation), but even that's not assured since we're a worthless fallen creation that may sin and die immediately after.

Seems your better off enjoying the sins of the world, kill whatever you want, indulge in every pleasure and then when you've had your fill just turn to God who will give you favored status over his faithful followers who denied themselves practically everything that comes natural to human nature.

Where is the justice of being equal in heaven to the man who only died a Christian rather than lived it?

Because we don't know when we will die.
We can live a life as a prodigal son but we are taking chances.
There are people I came across in my life were prodigal sons and died unexpectetly of aneurysm, heart attack, car accident. Many of them never had chance to say sinner pray to be saved.
If a Christian has true personal relationship with God, he/she would have no desire to be a prodigal son.
An example, when you are very much in love with someone, you would never think of cheating on that person.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

If a Christian has true personal relationship with God, he/she would have no desire to be a prodigal son.
An example, when you are very much in love of someone, you would never think of cheating on that person.

well put !!