Why not accept the world as it is?

[Mortensen]

Sorry if I am a little harsh here, but I as an atheist is wondering why people can't accept the world as it is? Why do humans have a need to feel like there allways is someone greater than us? I take a look at my dinner, a stake with saus and potatoes. I know exactily what it is, who made it and where it came from. I can track down the stake back to its birth. Why not accept things as it is? And about revelution. How is this so hard to accept? Scientists have long ago figured out that the universe is so massive and large and that the criteria for life is so small so it is just probability that some planets have life on them, there is nothing strange about that. And why do something have to have a first beginning? I agree that the universe has a reason, it has to have, but why do that reason have to be god? Why not accept that we dont know the reason? And as an end: How do you explain that God exict in contries where religion stands strong, in conries with low living standard and that people that has a hard time often find confert in God? Isn't it a possibility that man created god, not the oppisite? Man creaded god for his own needs. (Scientists has btw newly found the DNA gene that makes human's needs for something greater than himselves)

Sorry for beeing a little forthcoming I just needed to through my thoughts out for people to see them. Debate me with respekt please

 

[elman]

I agree that the universe has a reason, it has to have, but why do that reason have to be god? Why not accept that we dont know the reason?

How is there a reason if there is no entity to do the reasoning? I do accept that we do not know the reason but I don't accept we should not seek to know. I believe the search has value and I believe that even as we don't know the reason we can come to a reasonable speculation of what the reason might be. Why accept things as they are if you are able to make them better?

 

[BlackPanther]

What exactly do you mean, "accept the world as it is"?

Take a look at "Nature's Destiny" by Michael Denton...he writes about the anthropic principle and various properties of the earth and things on it, such as water, etc... that point to purpose.

Different people believe in God for different reasons. The idea that God is the source of the universe is backed by reason.

You say: "Isn't it a possibility that man created god, not the opposite?"
It is a possibility....but it seems that reason points to the conclusion that possibility that God created man/universe/etc.. is true.

You speak of possibility....we cannot truly be 100% sure about anything at all....technically....I have no way to "prove" that my next door neighbor exists...I could be mentally ill and my neighbor's existence could be some sort of manifestation of that illness. One might object by making the statement that all my neighbor has to do to prove his existence is to poke me....but this proves nothing...I could be having tactile hallucinations. We cannot prove 100% just about anything....what we can do however, is examine the facts and use reason to come to conclusions.

I'm not sure about the details of scientific findings about that gene you speak of....but it would actually make sense if there were such a gene....if God created us, it would make sense that He would cause us to have some sort of a natural tendency to look to Him. If the "writing" such a tendency into genes is the way He did it, what is the problem?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Sorry if I am a little harsh here, but I as an atheist is wondering why people can't accept the world as it is? Why do humans have a need to feel like there allways is someone greater than us? I take a look at my dinner, a stake with saus and potatoes. I know exactily what it is, who made it and where it came from. I can track down the stake back to its birth. Why not accept things as it is? And about revelution. How is this so hard to accept? Scientists have long ago figured out that the universe is so massive and large and that the criteria for life is so small so it is just probability that some planets have life on them, there is nothing strange about that. And why do something have to have a first beginning? I agree that the universe has a reason, it has to have, but why do that reason have to be god? Why not accept that we dont know the reason? And as an end: How do you explain that God exict in contries where religion stands strong, in conries with low living standard and that people that has a hard time often find confert in God? Isn't it a possibility that man created god, not the oppisite? Man creaded god for his own needs. (Scientists has btw newly found the DNA gene that makes human's needs for something greater than himselves)

Sorry for beeing a little forthcoming I just needed to through my thoughts out for people to see them. Debate me with respekt please

If there isn't anything more, as you believe, then what's wrong w/ believing in it. You have nothing to loose if going by your view. So what's the big deal? People tell their children of Santa and that's fine, but you talk about God and it's an issue....that's kind of a double standard, is it not?

 

[Mortensen]

The reson to believe in God is to get confert. To feel better and feel that there is a meaning with life and the universe. I respect that feeling and I envy it. And the reason to not believe in god is that it causes conflicts. If there is a God, he made this gene that makes us believe so that we would believe in different religions and make conflicts (God is allmighty. Everything is his intent). If there were just atheists on this planet, it would most likely be peace, not war. Its beacuse of high belief that people claime "I am right and you are wrong. The world is better without sinners". But I must say; if you take to individual persons, an atheist and a believer, the believer has an advantidges that the athest has not even though there is no reason to believe in a God. There is no proof, there is rather proof that he don't exict.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Well, comfort is the result of belief in God, not the reason, definitely not for me. Claiming that all wars are due to religious issues is inaccurate. A lot are due to economic and political issues.

 

[Blackguard_]

Sorry if I am a little harsh here, but I as an atheist is wondering why people can't accept the world as it is?

Because this is begging the question. You are assuming the world is a certain way while Theists assume the world is another way.

Why do humans have a need to feel like there allways is someone greater than us?

Seems you anser this yourself. DO you have the need to feel the greatest or something?

I take a look at my dinner, a stake with saus and potatoes. I know exactily what it is, who made it and where it came from. I can track down the stake back to its birth. Why not accept things as it is?

I fail to see what you are getting at here.

And about revelution. How is this so hard to accept?

Its not except to Biblical literalists, which not all christians are.

Scientists have long ago figured out that the universe is so massive and large and that the criteria for life is so small so it is just probability that some planets have life on them, there is nothing strange about that.

What's your point?

And why do something have to have a first beginning?

PRATT

I agree that the universe has a reason, it has to have, but why do that reason have to be god?

What do you mean by "reason"? Dou you mean basically "cause" or in the sense of "purpose"? The universe could have a casue without God sure, but how can an Athiestic universe have purpose?

Why not accept that we dont know the reason?

This is an argument against Theism how? Does that Science not know either mean it is false?

And as an end: How do you explain that God exict in contries where religion stands strong, in conries with low living standard and that people that has a hard time often find confert in God?

So many typos.... anyway, are you asking why religion is stronger in less developed countries? First of all, America is a counter-example. 2nd, Europe largley bought into the ideas of 19th century sociologists who assumed Science would replace religion. Basically, social science, not hard science is repsonsible for the decline. It was basically a self-fullfilling prophecy.

The decline was do to a change in culture, not scientific advancement.

Isn't it a possibility that man created god, not the oppisite? Man creaded god for his own needs.

Yes, its possible. So what?

(Scientists has btw newly found the DNA gene that makes human's needs for something greater than himselves)

....therefore, sex does not exist.

 

[Blackguard_]

The reson to believe in God is to get confert. To feel better and feel that there is a meaning with life and the universe. I respect that feeling and I envy it.

Its not good to play Internet Psychiatrist. That that's a reason to believe in God does not mean its the reason people believe.

And the reason to not believe in god is that it causes conflicts.

That's about the silliest thing I've heard in awhile.

If there were just atheists on this planet, it would most likely be peace, not war. Its beacuse of high belief that people claime "I am right and you are wrong. The world is better without sinners".

That's ridiculous. While no one should claim religion doesn't cause conflict, so does every other aspect of life.

Religion prevents conflict by having an ethical base and by giving sanctity to human life.

To illustrate, if I go to a liquor store to buy Gosling's Black Seal rum and find there is one left, and furthermore, there is some other guy there going for the same bottle. Assuming I could get away with it, what Athiest/Scientic reason do I have to not use any means necessary to stop the other guy, including killing him? Remember, according to Athiestic Science he is just a really fancy electrico-chemical gizmo, why should I let him run off with my booze of choice anymore than I wouldn't delete an annoying computer program?

Sure, I could make up some code of personal conduct that bans this type of thing, but it would be completely arbitrary.(remeber, in my scenario "fear of reprisal by friends/bystanders/the Law" is not an issue) What Scientific reason do I have to value a human life more than a bottle of rum?

But I must say; if you take to individual persons, an atheist and a believer, the believer has an advantidges that the athest has not even though there is no reason to believe in a God.

What do you mean?

There is no proof, there is rather proof that he don't exict.

..and this proof would be?

 

[michabo]

Take a look at "Nature's Destiny" by Michael Denton...he writes about the anthropic principle and various properties of the earth and things on it, such as water, etc... that point to purpose.

Sounds horrible if it contains as many fallacies as you're hinting at here.

I have no way to "prove" that my next door neighbor exists...

No argument against extreme solipsism, therefore God? We can't prove anything isn't a figment of our imagination, therefore any old hooey we dream up is as valid as any scientific investigation?

 

[michabo]

Sorry for beeing a little forthcoming I just needed to through my thoughts out for people to see them. Debate me with respekt please

Frankly, I think you're begging the question. You've offered no reason to accept your conclusions and start out assuming that you are correct.


But I still agree with you, though I don't agree with how you say it.


Now, just between us atheists...

As a tip, remember that any theistic belief is deeply rooted and there are sophisticated mental defense mechanisms which will prevent most theists for probing them. We tend to see ourselves as rational, sceptical, and good decision makers. The mind will resist confronting the fact that we believe in fairy tales that are only above Santa because of their financial and political success. It's worth remembering that especially after you hear some of the outrageous special pleading to justify Christianity. That as delusional as it might sound to an observer, it probably sounds reasonable and rational to the Christian saying it.

Even smart people won't acknowledge this. Being smarter, they have an even stronger hurdle to overcome if they wish to recognize how badly they've fooled themselves. Consequently, they dream up very smart ways to justify their irrational beliefs.

I think that there are many, many reasons why people have faiths. You could check out "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan or "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer for a start, if you're interested. You could also read "On Influence and Persuasion" by Cialdini which would cover 'cognitive dissonance' and some of the mental defense mechanisms which prevent theists from recognizing just how irrational their beliefs really are.

 

[Blackguard_]

Oh and OP, I presume what you think the "world as it is" is a "Materialist-Science only" one. Do you care to prove why that is so? Far as I can tell, the only thing for "Science only" is Ockham's Razor.

 

[Blackguard_]

And to comment on Michabo's post, keep in mind playing Internet Psychologist and essentially calling your debate oponent insane is an ad hominem. Not that things like Cognitive Dissonance don't exist, but it is often used as a really pretensious way of begging the question. Its too easy to say "Cognitive Dissonance!!" at anyone who responds to your lame arguments against Theism because you assume you are right.

But I must say, Its good to see a post hinting that Theists can be smarter than Athiests, even if simultaneously implying we are crazy. I'll accept "mad-genius" as a compliement.

 

[Mortensen]

I
QuoteI take a look at my dinner, a stake with saus and potatoes. I know exactily what it is, who made it and where it came from. I can track down the stake back to its birth. Why not accept things as it is?

I fail to see what you are getting at here.

Why do my dinner have to be something more than it is? I see no fancy about it, why believe that it is? Im taking my dinner as an example to the world that we live in beacuse it only exict of millions of objects no different than a dinner (exept from humans).

QuoteScientists have long ago figured out that the universe is so massive and large and that the criteria for life is so small so it is just probability that some planets have life on them, there is nothing strange about that.



What's your point?

Ive heard many believers say that it is just foolishness to believe that the earth and life was created by chance. Im just saying that it is not vierd at all, its how anything that is random have to be. If there is a 1/6 chance of getting a 6 on a dice, then if I throw it a thousand times, then I would have thrown 6 around 166 times.

QuoteI agree that the universe has a reason, it has to have, but why do that reason have to be god?

What do you mean by "reason"? Dou you mean basically "cause" or in the sense of "purpose"? The universe could have a casue without God sure, but how can an Athiestic universe have purpose?

So you're saying that what atheists believe in is wrong? Everything happens for a reason or it wouldn't happen. The reason could probably be a advanced scientificly one, we dont know yet, but it don't have to be God.

QuoteAnd as an end: How do you explain that God exict in contries where religion stands strong, in conries with low living standard and that people that has a hard time often find confert in God?


So many typos.... anyway, are you asking why religion is stronger in less developed countries? First of all, America is a counter-example. 2nd, Europe largley bought into the ideas of 19th century sociologists who assumed Science would replace religion. Basically, social science, not hard science is repsonsible for the decline. It was basically a self-fullfilling prophecy.

The decline was do to a change in culture, not scientific advancement.

Sure, usa is a counter example as many other contries beacuse the belief is so big in this country. The president is a christian and the gouvernment is buildt up on Christianity. Bush has said loud and clear that he thinks atheists shoud not have premission to stay there. Children is also raised to believe what they are told so there is really not so many options. I will take Norway as another example. Norway is announced fith year on the row to be the best country to live in, in the world. It is also one of the riches countries in the world. Here the christian parti is going down and I really don't know any christians around here. People isn't told to believe anything, so they dont, and there is no reason to either.

QuoteIsn't it a possibility that man created god, not the oppisite? Man creaded god for his own needs.


Yes, its possible. So what?

If everyone believes this is possible, I don't have more to say. I cant blame people for what they believe in, noone can and it makes alot of sence to find comfert in a allmighty God that is allways with you, but that there really is a God out there makes no scense.

QuoteThe reson to believe in God is to get confert. To feel better and feel that there is a meaning with life and the universe. I respect that feeling and I envy it.

Its not good to play Internet Psychiatrist. That that's a reason to believe in God does not mean its the reason people believe

What other reason is there?

QuoteAnd the reason to not believe in god is that it causes conflicts.

That's about the silliest thing I've heard in awhile.

This is allknowing.

QuoteAnd the reason to not believe in god is that it causes conflicts.

That's about the silliest thing I've heard in awhile.


QuoteIf there were just atheists on this planet, it would most likely be peace, not war. Its beacuse of high belief that people claime "I am right and you are wrong. The world is better without sinners".


That's ridiculous. While no one should claim religion doesn't cause conflict, so does every other aspect of life.

Religion prevents conflict by having an ethical base and by giving sanctity to human life.

To illustrate, if I go to a liquor store to buy Gosling's Black Seal rum and find there is one left, and furthermore, there is some other guy there going for the same bottle. Assuming I could get away with it, what Athiest/Scientic reason do I have to not use any means necessary to stop the other guy, including killing him? Remember, according to Athiestic Science he is just a really fancy electrico-chemical gizmo, why should I let him run off with my booze of choice anymore than I wouldn't delete an annoying computer program?

Sure, I could make up some code of personal conduct that bans this type of thing, but it would be completely arbitrary.(remeber, in my scenario "fear of reprisal by friends/bystanders/the Law" is not an issue) What Scientific reason do I have to value a human life more than a bottle of rum?[/quote]

Okay. There is tons of examples that showes that belief and religion causes conflicts and pain. F.eks. the crusaides down in Jean o'ark's time. They slaughter and killed everyone in their path that didn't believe what they believed. Back in Jesus's time, he was killed him selves bacuse of how religion ruled down there. It was illigel to say anything against the God they had. I once heard (think it was a program on the tv or something) that almost all wars are made because of different beliefs. It sais in both the bible and the koran (the islam text) that both religions will spread and there is many Islam leaders saying that Islams purpose is to take over the world, "and it will". May I not remind that the war between Irak and USA is caused by religion? Terrorism is build apon Islam wich is the larges threat the world now stand apon. Im sure you heard about what happened after the printing of several Muhammad cartoons? Beacuse of the belief down in the middle east, they raged and plundered everything that were danish or norwegain, it was just lucky that people didn't get killed.

To illustrate, if I go to a liquor store to buy Gosling's Black Seal rum and find there is one left, and furthermore, there is some other guy there going for the same bottle. Assuming I could get away with it, what Athiest/Scientic reason do I have to not use any means necessary to stop the other guy, including killing him? Remember, according to Athiestic Science he is just a really fancy electrico-chemical gizmo, why should I let him run off with my booze of choice anymore than I wouldn't delete an annoying computer program?

Sure, I could make up some code of personal conduct that bans this type of thing, but it would be completely arbitrary.(remeber, in my scenario "fear of reprisal by friends/bystanders/the Law" is not an issue) What Scientific reason do I have to value a human life more than a bottle of rum?

You have a point and I must laugh at the fancy electrico-chemical gizmo and you have a point. I believe that us humans are nothing else than fancy electrico-chemical gizmoes. But the sosiety we live in today makes us develope conscience stronger that we did before (I think). I don't know if scientists have found the part in the brain that causes this, but it is nothing else than a big lump of nerves that make us believe that other humans have more value than a bottle of rum.

QuoteBut I must say; if you take to individual persons, an atheist and a believer, the believer has an advantidges that the athest has not even though there is no reason to believe in a God.


What do you mean?

I mean that a person who has found faith has a better life than if he didn't have faith. As I've said before, faith gives comfert.

QuoteThere is no proof, there is rather proof that he don't exict.


..and this proof would be?

Let us say that it is plate with a stake on it (I like food) on top of the montain. Why would anyone believe that it is there? People could take a wild guess and start believing that its there, or they could have heard it from a friend who suddenly started to believe that it was a plate with a stake on it. What Im saying is that the chances that it really is a plate with a stake on it on top of the mountain is really small. Why not a TV? And if noone tells you that it is a TV on top of the mountain, you have no reason to believe it is. This is the same with religion. People believe in what they are told to believe (not all of course) and theirfore there is no many versons of God and religion. There have been tons of different religions and the only reason Norwegain don't believe in Northern Mythology today is that scientist figured out that the thunder had a natural explanation, it was not caused by Thor. There is few of us that believe in nothern mythology today beacuse it simply makes no sence. Why would other religions make more sence? Most people are athests to most religions. The lack of proof that there is a God could be a proof that there isn't. That God comes on so many different versions makes it even harder to believe. Why don't everyone believe in one religion? If you find a desserted tribe in the middle of the jungle, I don't think they would believe in Christianity or Islam, but do this make them less incorrect in their belief just because they have a fewer amount of believers?

 

[godscheerleader]

Frankly, I think you're begging the question. You've offered no reason to accept your conclusions and start out assuming that you are correct.


But I still agree with you, though I don't agree with how you say it.


Now, just between us atheists...

As a tip, remember that any theistic belief is deeply rooted and there are sophisticated mental defense mechanisms which will prevent most theists for probing them. We tend to see ourselves as rational, sceptical, and good decision makers. The mind will resist confronting the fact that we believe in fairy tales that are only above Santa because of their financial and political success. It's worth remembering that especially after you hear some of the outrageous special pleading to justify Christianity. That as delusional as it might sound to an observer, it probably sounds reasonable and rational to the Christian saying it.

Even smart people won't acknowledge this. Being smarter, they have an even stronger hurdle to overcome if they wish to recognize how badly they've fooled themselves. Consequently, they dream up very smart ways to justify their irrational beliefs.

I think that there are many, many reasons why people have faiths. You could check out "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan or "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer for a start, if you're interested. You could also read "On Influence and Persuasion" by Cialdini which would cover 'cognitive dissonance' and some of the mental defense mechanisms which prevent theists from recognizing just how irrational their beliefs really are.

Why accept the world as it is? We should be doing everything in our power to change the wrongs on this planet, it is God's will. Remember, God only helps those who help themselves

 

[God_Botherer]

Why accept the world as it is? We should be doing everything in our power to change the wrongs on this planet, it is God's will. Remember, God only helps those who help themselves

That is very true, godscheerleader. Except when it comes to salvation, because that can only be achieved through Jesus Christ, not ourselves.

It's funny though that particular phrase does NOT appear in the Bible.

 

[Mortensen]

Read what I wrote about religions and conflicts. Faith cannot solve world problems

 

[michabo]

And to comment on Michabo's post, keep in mind playing Internet Psychologist and essentially calling your debate oponent insane is an ad hominem. Not that things like Cognitive Dissonance don't exist, but it is often used as a really pretensious way of begging the question.

And let me also attack my position by saying that, while I do believe that Cognitive Dissonance is a real phenomenon, accusing your debating opponents of it is a no-no. There is nothing that they can say to defend themselves. If they agree with you, then you win. If they deny it, then you say that it is the cognitive dissonance defending itself and this rejection is further evidence. It is essentially impossible to falsify in a debate setting, and so should NOT be used as an accusation.

I mention it only so that Mortenson (sp?) could bear it in mind while discussing this issue with people. I know my little rant would not be taken well by theists, but I stand by it and hope that it would help him ask questions which will help him understand people more.

Its too easy to say "Cognitive Dissonance!!" at anyone who responds to your lame arguments against Theism because you assume you are right.

Very true.

 

[BlackPanther]

Sounds horrible if it contains as many fallacies as you're hinting at here.

What fallacies?

No argument against extreme solipsism, therefore God? We can't prove anything isn't a figment of our imagination, therefore any old hooey we dream up is as valid as any scientific investigation?

That is not at all what I meant.
I am by no means saying that since whatever we dream up, technically, cannot be proven or disproven, so it is valid.
That would be quite a fallacy, and I agree, an

I also did not say that since we cannot truly prove or disprove anything, therefore God.

 

[Blackguard_]

Why do my dinner have to be something more than it is? I see no fancy about it, why believe that it is? Im taking my dinner as an example to the world that we live in beacuse it only exict of millions of objects no different than a dinner (exept from humans).

Ive heard many believers say that it is just foolishness to believe that the earth and life was created by chance. Im just saying that it is not vierd at all,.....

Ok. You're right. The problem is some Theists seem to think that God's existance has to somehow be necessary for the universe, Earth, life, etc. to exist. These are the kind of Theists that scientific progress makes nervous. I personally do not hold that view, it makes sense to me that God would make a universe that could run without constant maintence or intervention on his part. That's not to say I'm a Deist though.

The reason could probably be a advanced scientificly one, we dont know yet, but it don't have to be God.

If they found a cause for the universe, they would need to find the casue for the casue, and a casue for that cause ad infinitum right?. Therefore, this debate can never end. If it does, you are then wrong about everything needing a reason.

And it doesn't have to be Science either. We are both assuming we our views are correct. Even if they found a Scientific way for the universe to exist, it wouldn't necessarily mean God wasn't involved.

Okay. There is tons of examples that showes that belief and religion causes conflicts and pain. F.eks. the crusaides down in Jean o'ark's time. They slaughter and killed everyone in their path that didn't believe what they believed. Back in Jesus's time, he was killed him selves bacuse of how religion ruled down there. It was illigel to say anything against the God they had. .

First of all....

While no one should claim religion doesn't cause conflict,

I already admitted religion can cause conflict. I was arguing against your assertion an Athiest world would be conflict free.

I once heard (think it was a program on the tv or something) that almost all wars are made because of different beliefs.

And the "different beliefs" do not have to be religious beliefs. For example, the Cold War and the dozens of pro and anti communist insurrections were based on conflicting political beliefs.

most succession crises are based on a belief about who has the right to the crown or whatever based on tradition, not religion. The houses of York and Lancaster in the War of the Roses believing they each have the right to the crown is a conflict of belief, but not religion.

The American civil war was a conflict of political ideas, whether slavery was OK was a religious issue, but States Rights and the right of the COnfederacy to secede was a difference of politics. as was our war of independence from England. Sure some siad "resistance to tyrants is obedience to God" but the conflict over whether George III was a tyrant was based on Enlightment philosophy and the status quo ante of British Colonial admininstration.

It sais in both the bible and the koran (the islam text) that both religions will spread and there is many Islam leaders saying that Islams purpose is to take over the world, "and it will".

Yes, its foolish to think Islam and Christianity (or any evangelizing religions) can tolerate each other.

May I not remind that the war between Irak and USA is caused by religion? Terrorism is build apon Islam wich is the larges threat the world now stand apon. Im sure you heard about what happened after the printing of several Muhammad cartoons? Beacuse of the belief down in the middle east, they raged and plundered everything that were danish or norwegain, it was just lucky that people didn't get killed

And as a counterpoint, the justification given for the continued occupation of Iraq(and for the initial invasion to those who don't buy that Iraq had WMDs or ties to al-queda) is the spread of a version of democracy.

The belief liberal democracy will bring peace to the region is not a religious one and the casue of the continuing war.

Sure, usa is a counter example as many other contries beacuse the belief is so big in this country. The president is a christian and the gouvernment is buildt up on Christianity.

Our government is NOT built on Christianity. Our government was formed as a (failed) experiment in Enlightenment political theory.

Bush has said loud and clear that he thinks atheists shoud not have premission to stay there.

I've never heard that. maybe he thinks that, but I am not aware of him ever saying it.

Children is also raised to believe what they are told so there is really not so many options.

You've never been here have you? Sure, I have no doubt some over here do that, but the vast majority of people's "being told what to believe" is their parents made them go to church when they were 9.

I will take Norway as another example. Norway is announced fith year on the row to be the best country to live in, in the world. It is also one of the riches countries in the world. Here the christian parti is going down and I really don't know any christians around here.

I never said Athiest countries couldn't do fine.

People isn't told to believe anything, so they dont, and there is no reason to either.

So Norway doesn't have an education system?

My guess is Science is the only method of viewing the world most there are exposed to.

Anyway, so why do you believe in Science?

I mean that a person who has found faith has a better life than if he didn't have faith. As I've said before, faith gives comfert.

ok. And some people have faith becasue they see God (or think they see it as you might say) working in the world.

Let us say that it is plate with a stake on it (I like food) on top of the montain. Why would anyone believe that it is there? People could take a wild guess and start believing that its there, or they could have heard it from a friend who suddenly started to believe that it was a plate with a stake on it. What Im saying is that the chances that it really is a plate with a stake on it on top of the mountain is really small. Why not a TV? And if noone tells you that it is a TV on top of the mountain, you have no reason to believe it is.

Bad analogy. Your steak isn't involved with the outside world at all. Those people telling you a steak was there would have been told by the steak he is there for one.

This is the same with religion. People believe in what they are told to believe (not all of course) and theirfore there is no many versons of God and religion.

Pluralty of religions doesn't mean they are wrong anymore then theor being multiple competing scientific theories means they are wrong.

So, hows the Grand Unified Theory coming along?

There have been tons of different religions and the only reason Norwegain don't believe in Northern Mythology today is that scientist figured out that the thunder had a natural explanation, it was not caused by Thor.

Science and God are not mutually excluive.

For example, you asked why evolution was so hard to accept. But according to this way of thinking, that science and God are mutually exclusive, it means God could not have been involved in evolution. Then have your answer; belief in scientific evolution is hard for Theists to accept becasue it is tantamount to the rejection of Theism.

Do you believe Christianity and Evolution are incompatible?

There is few of us that believe in nothern mythology today beacuse it simply makes no sence. Why would other religions make more sence?

Becasue different religions god existence do not stand or fall on the same things.

Most people are athests to most religions. The lack of proof that there is a God could be a proof that there isn't.

What proof is there that Science is true?

That God comes on so many different versions makes it even harder to believe. Why don't everyone believe in one religion?

Because people naturally seek the divine and different people can end up finding different things. And being human they can't seek perfectly or even well.

If you find a desserted tribe in the middle of the jungle, I don't think they would believe in Christianity or Islam, but do this make them less incorrect in their belief just because they have a fewer amount of believers?

No, it would not be incorrect becasue it has too few members.

 

[michabo]

What fallacies?

Looking back at your post in a more generous mood, I would say that it is likely I misread it. Reading it now, I must apologize.

It sounds like you're saying that there is a possibility that man created God, but you are pointing out (correctly) that these speculations cannot be ruled out. But just because you are honest and admitting to a possibility, doesn't mean that you think it is a probability.

Is that right?


If so, then I must strongly disagree with you about the evidence for God, but I would still agree with how you express yourself and the things you said about evidence. I was reading things into your post which weren't there, and I appreciate the way you courteously responded, allowing me the chance correct myself. Thank you.