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<blockquote data-quote="FredVB" data-source="post: 74848159" data-attributes="member: 259043"><p>Greatcloudlives, you are in the miniscule minority. You and the denialists can't win, and you will not win, which is good. Science that has the consensus seeing it will be shown right.</p><p></p><p>When we see climate changing, we don't automatically jump on the human bandwagon, case closed. No, we rigorously examine and test all other reasons why climate could be changing: the sun, volcanoes, natural cycles, even something we don't know yet: could they be responsible?</p><p></p><p>Could it be the sun? No: the sun's energy has been going down at the very time that the average temperature of the planet continues to rise. <a href="https://skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm" target="_blank">Sun & climate: moving in opposite directions</a> No, even a Grand Minimum wouldn't save us. <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/06/what-if-the-sun-went-into-a-new-grand-minimum/" target="_blank">What if the Sun went into a new Grand Minimum?</a></p><p></p><p>Could it be volcanoes? No: though a big eruption emits a lot of soot and particulates, these temporarily cool the planet. On average, all geologic activity, put together, emits only about 10% of the heat-trapping gases that humans do. <a href="https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2011EO240001" target="_blank">Error - Cookies Turned Off</a></p><p></p><p>Could it be orbital cycles? Are we just getting warmer after the last ice age? No: warming from the last ice age peaked 1000s of yrs ago, and the next event on our geologic calendar was another ice age: was, until the industrial revolution, that is. <a href="https://people.clas.ufl.edu/jetc/files/Tzedakis-et-al-2012.pdf" target="_blank">https://people.clas.ufl.edu/jetc/files/Tzedakis-et-al-2012.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>Could it be natural cycles internal to the climate system, like El Nino? No: those cycles simply move heat around the climate system, mostly back and forth between the atmosphere and ocean. They cannot CREATE heat. So if they were responsible for atmospheric warming, then the heat content of another part of the climate system wd have to be going down, while the heat content of the atmosphere was going up. Is this what we see? No: heat content is increasing across the entire climate system, ocean most of all! <a href="https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=65" target="_blank">Nuccitelli et al 2012 Total Heat Content</a></p><p></p><p>Could it be cosmic rays? No. <a href="https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=68" target="_blank">Cosmic Rays and Climate moving in opposite directions</a></p><p></p><p>How about the magnetic pole moving? Planet Niribu? Geoengineering? What about an unknown factor we don't know about yet? No. <a href="https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/JCLI-D-11-00645.1" target="_blank">https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/JCLI-D-11-00645.1</a></p><p></p><p>It has been known since the work of John Tyndall in the 1850s that CO2 absorbs and re-radiates infrared energy, and Eunice Foote was the first to suggest that higher CO2 levels would lead to a warmer planet, in 1856. No one has been able to explain how increasing levels of CO2, CH4 and other heat-trapping gases would not raise the temperature of the planet. Yet that must be done first, if we are to consider any other sources as "dominant". Moreover, when Rasmus Benestad and other scientists examined dozens of published papers claiming to minimize or eliminate the human role in climate change, they found errors in every single one. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/aug/25/heres-what-happens-when-you-try-to-replicate-climate-contrarian-papers" target="_blank">Here’s what happens when you try to replicate climate contrarian papers | Dana Nuccitelli</a></p><p></p><p><a href="https://skepticalscience.com/water-vapor-greenhouse-gas.htm" target="_blank">Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works</a></p><p></p><p>If you don't think humans are the dominant source of warming, you are making a statement that does not have a single factual or scientific leg to stand on. Yet leaders of science agencies are saying exactly that today. This is the world we live in. [MEDIA=youtube]k5_zpjerQFo[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]CLtFwUTrE4E[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Thanks to Katharine Hayhoe.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FredVB, post: 74848159, member: 259043"] Greatcloudlives, you are in the miniscule minority. You and the denialists can't win, and you will not win, which is good. Science that has the consensus seeing it will be shown right. When we see climate changing, we don't automatically jump on the human bandwagon, case closed. No, we rigorously examine and test all other reasons why climate could be changing: the sun, volcanoes, natural cycles, even something we don't know yet: could they be responsible? Could it be the sun? No: the sun's energy has been going down at the very time that the average temperature of the planet continues to rise. [URL="https://skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm"]Sun & climate: moving in opposite directions[/URL] No, even a Grand Minimum wouldn't save us. [URL="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/06/what-if-the-sun-went-into-a-new-grand-minimum/"]What if the Sun went into a new Grand Minimum?[/URL] Could it be volcanoes? No: though a big eruption emits a lot of soot and particulates, these temporarily cool the planet. On average, all geologic activity, put together, emits only about 10% of the heat-trapping gases that humans do. [URL="https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2011EO240001"]Error - Cookies Turned Off[/URL] Could it be orbital cycles? Are we just getting warmer after the last ice age? No: warming from the last ice age peaked 1000s of yrs ago, and the next event on our geologic calendar was another ice age: was, until the industrial revolution, that is. [URL]https://people.clas.ufl.edu/jetc/files/Tzedakis-et-al-2012.pdf[/URL] Could it be natural cycles internal to the climate system, like El Nino? No: those cycles simply move heat around the climate system, mostly back and forth between the atmosphere and ocean. They cannot CREATE heat. So if they were responsible for atmospheric warming, then the heat content of another part of the climate system wd have to be going down, while the heat content of the atmosphere was going up. Is this what we see? No: heat content is increasing across the entire climate system, ocean most of all! [URL="https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=65"]Nuccitelli et al 2012 Total Heat Content[/URL] Could it be cosmic rays? No. [URL="https://skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=68"]Cosmic Rays and Climate moving in opposite directions[/URL] How about the magnetic pole moving? Planet Niribu? Geoengineering? What about an unknown factor we don't know about yet? No. [URL]https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/JCLI-D-11-00645.1[/URL] It has been known since the work of John Tyndall in the 1850s that CO2 absorbs and re-radiates infrared energy, and Eunice Foote was the first to suggest that higher CO2 levels would lead to a warmer planet, in 1856. No one has been able to explain how increasing levels of CO2, CH4 and other heat-trapping gases would not raise the temperature of the planet. Yet that must be done first, if we are to consider any other sources as "dominant". Moreover, when Rasmus Benestad and other scientists examined dozens of published papers claiming to minimize or eliminate the human role in climate change, they found errors in every single one. [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/aug/25/heres-what-happens-when-you-try-to-replicate-climate-contrarian-papers"]Here’s what happens when you try to replicate climate contrarian papers | Dana Nuccitelli[/URL] [URL="https://skepticalscience.com/water-vapor-greenhouse-gas.htm"]Explaining how the water vapor greenhouse effect works[/URL] If you don't think humans are the dominant source of warming, you are making a statement that does not have a single factual or scientific leg to stand on. Yet leaders of science agencies are saying exactly that today. This is the world we live in. [MEDIA=youtube]k5_zpjerQFo[/MEDIA] [MEDIA=youtube]CLtFwUTrE4E[/MEDIA] Thanks to Katharine Hayhoe. [/QUOTE]
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