Why leave a "paradise" state.....

Acts2:38 · Nov 14, 2018

This thread is not here for debating, merely just seeing thoughts/opinions of people around the US, especially Californians. No need to debate since the facts/information is open for all to see.

Please try to contain yourselves from debating one another or even me, as this is only peoples thoughts and opinions about the articles and situation provided here. I just want to gather information for my own personal knowledge on what people are thinking.

Three different sites are placed here so people cannot discredit one site or the other since they all basically agree with each other.

Why are more California residents moving to red states?

Californians Doing The Once-Unthinkable: Leaving California | Investor's Business Daily

Californians fed up with housing costs and taxes are fleeing state in big numbers

So, I now ask:

#1-If California is so great, and it's laws (that the majority people wanted) are so good, and the system and ways that the people voted for all these years are better than most states (many have claimed this so all I am doing is repeating) why leave "paradise"?

#2 - If democratic states are superior in their ways, why are Californians moving in mass to conservative states?

#3 - Since Californians are moving in mass to conservative states (for the most part) why continue voting that same exact way that forced a Californians hand in moving the first time?

Again, all I am looking for is information of opinions and thoughts. No debating necessary as I will not respond to such. If I am in the wrong forum for this, please excuse me.

Let the peoples thoughts flow.....

SoldierOfTheKing · Nov 14, 2018

California has been ruined by immigration.

Acts2:38 · Nov 14, 2018

SoldierOfTheKing said:
California has been ruined by immigration.

Do you think that all that California has become and done are, and is, wholly due to immigration only?

maintenance man · Nov 14, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
So, I now ask:

#1-If California is so great, and it's laws (that the majority people wanted) are so good, and the system and ways that the people voted for all these years are better than most states (many have claimed this so all I am doing is repeating) why leave "paradise"?

#2 - If democratic states are superior in their ways, why are Californians moving in mass to conservative states?

#3 - Since Californians are moving in mass to conservative states (for the most part) why continue voting that same exact way that forced a Californians hand in moving the first time?

People are leaving because of economics not necessarily politics. I suppose you could say that it was politics that drove up the cost of living, but I think it's a little more complex than that. I didn't read your supporting articles but I can tell you I want to leave because I can get so much more for my money elsewhere. I won't be looking for a conservative state - I'll be looking for a cheap state.

DennisTate · Nov 14, 2018

This could be part of a larger long term trend according to Pastor David Wilkerson back in 1973.

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

Acts2:38 · Nov 15, 2018

maintenance man said:
People are leaving because of economics not necessarily politics. I suppose you could say that it was politics that drove up the cost of living, but I think it's a little more complex than that. I didn't read your supporting articles but I can tell you I want to leave because I can get so much more for my money elsewhere. I won't be looking for a conservative state - I'll be looking for a cheap state.

I'm a native Californian myself. I left in 2008. For me, I left due to the buckling weight of laws placed upon me by voters.

For example, who in the world votes to raise taxes on themselves?! I think that is crazy. If someone wants to pay extra, then give extra money to the government offices and leave me out of it. Don't force me too, to also pay more.

Recently, California had an amendment to repeal high taxes, and they said no. They are out of their minds to be raising burdens on themselves like that when they have such high costs of living already.

As far as politics, I look at who has been running Californian for decades. For such a great economic potential of a state (It could be such a powerhouse if it wanted to be), it is getting pummeled the way its ran.

That is why I left. I miss California as a place though. You wont see better weather and scene anywhere else. Not dismissing other states scenes, but California is the place to be for weather and scene.

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

One other question for you,
Should you get the opportunity to move out of California, would you like to see the next state be run the same way as California?

Acts2:38 · Nov 15, 2018

DennisTate said:
This could be part of a larger long term trend according to Pastor David Wilkerson back in 1973.

Could be.

Though, I find rural areas are actually much cheaper than cities and suburban areas. Much cheaper and more land in rural. However, my data only comes from personal experience and a handful of states lived in.

Looking at a few rural areas in the state I moved to recently, I can find homes for about 280k 1600 sqft all appliances included and 2-3 acres (average) on the cities outskirts. The problem I am facing though, is the city is making a huge push to expand due to an influx of people, so 1 year ago, those same homes were about 190kish and still only 10 miles from the cities center. That is cheap. Prices are going up quickly, before I can study and even obtain my license and go into my own business. Those same houses though, if I was to look in town, are already hitting 380-480k. A bit more expensive than the rural and a LOT less land.

maintenance man · Nov 15, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Should you get the opportunity to move out of California, would you like to see the next state be run the same way as California?

That's a good point. For the most part I would say no.

Acts2:38 · Nov 15, 2018

maintenance man said:
That's a good point. For the most part I would say no.

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

Arcangl86 · Nov 15, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
As far as politics, I look at who has been running Californian for decades. For such a great economic potential of a state (It could be such a powerhouse if it wanted to be), it is getting pummeled the way its ran.

California has the 6th highest GDP in the world. I think most people would qualify that as a economic powerhouse.

Acts2:38 · Nov 15, 2018

Arcangl86 said:
California has the 6th highest GDP in the world. I think most people would qualify that as a economic powerhouse.

Did you read the OP post?

What are your thoughts about the questions I presented?

ItalianStallion · Nov 15, 2018

As a California native...we have great weather and things to do.

There's also high taxes, expensive rents, high immigration, homeless/drugs, congested traffic.

Been considering leaving (the current fire/smoke crisis isn't helping the cause to stay lol).

DennisTate · Nov 15, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Could be.

Though, I find rural areas are actually much cheaper than cities and suburban areas. Much cheaper and more land in rural. However, my data only comes from personal experience and a handful of states lived in.

Looking at a few rural areas in the state I moved to recently, I can find homes for about 280k 1600 sqft all appliances included and 2-3 acres (average) on the cities outskirts. The problem I am facing though, is the city is making a huge push to expand due to an influx of people, so 1 year ago, those same homes were about 190kish and still only 10 miles from the cities center. That is cheap. Prices are going up quickly, before I can study and even obtain my license and go into my own business. Those same houses though, if I was to look in town, are already hitting 380-480k. A bit more expensive than the rural and a LOT less land.

In a way.... that is kind of a good problem to be facing...... The ability for so many careers to be done partly from home now makes what David Wilkerson predicted more logical as well.......

and... so is what happened just after he wrote that in 1973..... the national debt of the USA skyrocketed..... and the value of money changed rapidly and greatly......

FireDragon76 · Nov 16, 2018

California exports its poor to Texas, other states, while wealthier people move in

The people who leave California tend to be relatively poor and uneducated.

I live in Orlando and the rents here are only a little better than what that article lists for Sacramento.

There are places in the US that undoubtedly cheaper to live but the government provides minimal services and/or they don't have nice weather or you have to live in a cultural backwater.

Acts2:38 · Nov 16, 2018

ItalianStallion said:
As a California native...we have great weather and things to do.

There's also high taxes, expensive rents, high immigration, homeless/drugs, congested traffic.

Been considering leaving (the current fire/smoke crisis isn't helping the cause to stay lol).

I don't think anyone would argue the weather and scenery California has. I am a native Californian too, moved out in 2008.

I also do not think anyone can argue the taxes, rent, immigration, etc. What are your thoughts on the three questions I posed?

Did you wish to participate in the questions I posed?

Acts2:38 · Nov 16, 2018

DennisTate said:
In a way.... that is kind of a good problem to be facing...... The ability for so many careers to be done partly from home now makes what David Wilkerson predicted more logical as well.......

and... so is what happened just after he wrote that in 1973..... the national debt of the USA skyrocketed..... and the value of money changed rapidly and greatly......

No doubt about the debt. It is straight up ridiculous. Big gov expects us to balance our check books yet cannot do it themselves.

DennisTate · Nov 16, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
No doubt about the debt. It is straight up ridiculous. Big gov expects us to balance our check books yet cannot do it themselves.

This is one of the easiest to understand articles that I ever read on this:

The Public-Debt Problem

Acts2:38 · Nov 16, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
The people who leave California tend to be relatively poor and uneducated.

I take a look at this article later. Thanks, seems an interesting read.

FireDragon76 said:
I live in Orlando and the rents here are only a little better than what that article lists for Sacramento.

There are places in the US that undoubtedly cheaper to live but the government provides minimal services and/or they don't have nice weather or you have to live in a cultural backwater.

Well, I am tempted to say Orlando would be a better place to live. I haven't been to Orlando yet, but I know Sacramento. EWWW.

Speaking of backwater, and I don't know how most of Florida is, but Naples is like 40 years behind and backwater all up in here. Which was surprising to me.

Acts2:38 · Nov 16, 2018

DennisTate said:
This is one of the easiest to understand articles that I ever read on this:

The Public-Debt Problem

Well, if the article information is correct, the problem would be TOO much monetary generation and spending and too little debt payoff making it unbalanced.

There can still be a balance instead of it spiraling out of control. It would still be considered living within the means.

Thanks for that information.

DennisTate · Nov 16, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Well, if the article information is correct, the problem would be TOO much monetary generation and spending and too little debt payoff making it unbalanced.

There can still be a balance instead of it spiraling out of control. It would still be considered living within the means.

Thanks for that information.

Here is another interesting article that relates to how there are options:

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy

Abraham Lincoln
During the Civil War (1861-1865), President Lincoln needed money to finance the War from the North. The Bankers were going to charge him 24% to 36% interest. Lincoln was horrified and went away greatly distressed, for he was a man of principle and would not think of plunging his beloved country into a debt that the country would find impossible to pay back.

Eventually President Lincoln was advised to get Congress to pass a law authorizing the printing of full legal tender Treasury notes to pay for the War effort. Lincoln recognized the great benefits of this issue. At one point he wrote:

“... (we) gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they have ever had – their own paper money to pay their own debts...”

The Treasury notes were printed with green ink on the back, so the people called them “Greenbacks”.

Lincoln printed 400 million dollars worth of Greenbacks (the exact amount being $449,338,902), money that he delegated to be created, a debt-free and interest-free money to finance the War. It served as legal tender for all debts, public and private. He printed it, paid it to the soldiers, to the U.S. Civil Service employees, and bought supplies for war.

....

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. So you can about imagine how much the Government has paid and how much we owe solely on the basis of interest.

Why leave a "paradise" state.....

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