WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

Carl Emerson · Aug 24, 2022

Not really - as Paul says they are not all Israel who are Israel.

This would suggest in the sentence Israel 1 is the elect among the Jews and Israel 2 are all the blood line descendants. (both saved and unsaved.)

In other word 'spiritual Israel' are the elect both Jew and Gentile and physical Israel are the Jews by Blood.

Guojing · Aug 24, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Not really - as Paul says they are not all Israel who are Israel.

This would suggest in the sentence Israel 1 is the elect among the Jews and Israel 2 are all the blood line descendants. (both saved and unsaved.)

In other word 'spiritual Israel' are the elect both Jew and Gentile and physical Israel are the Jews by Blood.

I agree with your first sentence and 2nd sentence.

But, in your 3rd sentence, how do you end up concluding, that "spritual Israel", even if I can agree Paul had that term in his mind, must contain gentile believers in the Body of Christ as well?

Is there anything in Romans 9-11 that hinted that in any way? I am just curious how you interpret that passage.

Carl Emerson · Aug 24, 2022

ICONO'CLAST said:
I was agreeing with your post. My like function seems to be disabled?

That's weird - wonder why ???

Carl Emerson · Aug 24, 2022

Guojing said:
I agree with your first sentence and 2nd sentence.

But, in your 3rd sentence, how do you end up concluding, that "spritual Israel", even if I can agree Paul had that term in his mind, must contain gentile believers in the Body of Christ as well?

Is there anything in Romans 9-11 that hinted that in any way? I am just curious how you interpret that passage.

I interpret it in the light of Galatians 3

Guojing · Aug 24, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
I interpret it in the light of Galatians 3

Care to explain further?

Carl Emerson · Aug 24, 2022

Guojing said:
Care to explain further?

Sure - Abraham is the Father of all who have faith - both Jew and Gentile.

This is the 'Elect' and the Bride of Christ.

So 'spiritual Israel' are the sons and daughters of the promise given to Abraham.

It is interesting that an important aspect of Abrahams faith is that he believed that God could create something out of nothing. Hence his belief that Isaac could be resurrected.
This equates to the faith of all true believers - they must believe in the resurrection of Christ in the Flesh. This resurrection faith also spills over into daily life - trusting in Jesus - believing in His provision, walking by faith not sight.

Guojing · Aug 25, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Sure - Abraham is the Father of all who have faith - both Jew and Gentile.

This is the 'Elect' and the Bride of Christ.

So 'spiritual Israel' are the sons and daughters of the promise given to Abraham.

I see. I do accept the view that Abraham is the father of faith to both Israel (spiritual) and the Body of Christ.

But it appears to me that, implicit in your view above seems to be the assumption that, the Body of Christ must therefore be equivalent to Israel (spiritual)?

Thus, even though neither the term "Israel", nor "spiritual Israel" appear in Galatians 3, you assume that, and then insert that same view into Romans 9:6 about Israel?

Am I correct?

Carl Emerson · Aug 25, 2022

Well do you consider the the Blood line of the Jews started with Abraham?

Do you also consider that the so called "spiritual Israel" started with Abraham?

If He is the Father of ALL who have faith, this must be Jew and Gentile - No ???

Guojing · Aug 25, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Well do you consider the the Blood line of the Jews started with Abraham?

Do you also consider that the so called "spiritual Israel" started with Abraham?

If He is the Father of ALL who have faith, this must be Jew and Gentile - No ???

But all of that you are stating here, is also consistent with the alternative view I given you here as well.

WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

Would you agree?

Carl Emerson · Aug 25, 2022

Guojing said:
But all of that you are stating here, is also consistent with the alternative view I given you here as well.

WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

Would you agree?

Which Israel are you referring to?

Guojing · Aug 25, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Which Israel are you referring to?

It's all in the post I linked.you to

None of them refer to gentiles in the body of Christ

Dan Perez · Sep 12, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
So you are saying... "All Israel will be saved"

You are also saying... That "Israel can never be part of the Body of Christ"

Correct ???

And here is why Israel can NEVER part of the B O C .

In Ex 19:6 and in Rev 1:6 Israel will be KINGS and PRIEST and a Holy Nation in the Millennial Kingdom as they will offer up 6 offerings , there >!!

dan p

Carl Emerson · Sep 12, 2022

Dan Perez said:
And here is why Israel can NEVER part of the B O C .

In Ex 19:6 and in Rev 1:6 Israel will be KINGS and PRIEST and a Holy Nation in the Millennial Kingdom as they will offer up 6 offerings , there >!!

dan p

Which Israel is that ??? Given that Paul says "they are not all Israel that are Israel..."

Dan Perez · Sep 13, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Which Israel is that ??? Given that Paul says "they are not all Israel that are Israel..."

And read Eze 37:19 and that Israel and Judah are 2 SEPARATE STICKS .

But after Rom 11:26 Israel and Judah will become ONE STICK .

dan p

DaveM · Sep 13, 2022

Guojing said:
Is it possible that the body of Christ might be a new creation and different from Israel, or do you think they must be the same?

this is a great question, and all we need to do is look at scripture, God speaks to his prophets before doing anything, Amos 3:7

and we can see clearly that no new creation different from Isreal was spoken of, only that he would call his people who are not his people his people.

Dan Perez · Sep 13, 2022

DaveM said:
this is a great question, and all we need to do is look at scripture, God speaks to his prophets before doing anything, Amos 3:7

and we can see clearly that no new creation different from Isreal was spoken of, only that he would call his people who are not his people his people.

And 2 Cor 5:17 sys we are a new CREATURE .

1 Cor 2:16 we have the mind of Christ , which Israel never had ,

Phil 3:20 n our conversation IS IN HEAVEN .

And there are many more !!

dan p

BABerean2 · Sep 26, 2022

HARK! said:
"Old" covenant cannot be found in the Greek nor Hebrew manuscripts. It's an invention of man. It YHWH's covenant. He renewed it.

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18.

We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.

A clear contrast between the two covenants is found above. That same contrast is found below in the words of the Apostle Paul, where he speaks of the ten commandments in the past tense.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

.

HARK! · Sep 26, 2022

BABerean2 said:
2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new (חדשה)covenant with the house of Israel (Notice who the contract is with) and the house of Judah.

ל הִנֵּה יָמִים בָּאִים, נְאֻם-יְהוָה; וְכָרַתִּי, אֶת-בֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל וְאֶת-בֵּית יְהוּדָה--בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה.

châdash, khaw-dash'; a primitive root; to be new; causatively, to rebuild:—renew, repair.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)

(CLV) Jer 31:32
Not like the covenant which I contracted »with their fathers in the day I held fast- onto their hand to bring them forth from the land of Egypt, which »covenant of Mine they themselves annulled while I was Possessor over them, averring is Yahweh.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

Dan Perez · Sep 26, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Sure - Abraham is the Father of all who have faith - both Jew and Gentile.

This is the 'Elect' and the Bride of Christ.

So 'spiritual Israel' are the sons and daughters of the promise given to Abraham.

It is interesting that an important aspect of Abrahams faith is that he believed that God could create something out of nothing. Hence his belief that Isaac could be resurrected.
This equates to the faith of all true believers - they must believe in the resurrection of Christ in the Flesh. This resurrection faith also spills over into daily life - trusting in Jesus - believing in His provision, walking by faith not sight.

In Jer 3:14 Christ is speaking to Israel , Turn , O backsliding children saith the Lord , for I AM MARRIED UNTO TO YOU .

If the B O C is the Bride of Christ and that He already has a wife , does that make Christ a BIGAMIST ?

dan p

ICONO'CLAST · Sep 26, 2022

Guojing said:
Care to explain further?

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

lk1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Gen12:
12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Rom10:
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

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