WHY ISREAL IS NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST .

HARK! said:

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

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15 τὴν ἔχθραν, ἐν τῇ σαρκὶ αὐτοῦ τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασι καταργήσας

2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;KJV

Ephesians 2:15 Interlinear

δικαιώμασι is the ordinances in Deuteronomy 4:5, Septuagint.
δόγμασι is decrees... in Daniel 4:6 and Daniel 6:8, Septuagint... of Babylon and Persia.

Dan Perez said:

And how are Jews being saved today in the AGE OF GRACE ?

I say that there are NO GENTILES or Jews in the BODY OF Christ and Gal 3:28 proves it .

dan p

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Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

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HARK! said:

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

Do you think that there is another way?

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Yes, I agree with you that scripture states the following

1. Israel was under the Old Covenant
2. Israel will be under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8, Jeremiah 31:31)

But would you consider that the ascended Christ saved Paul and revealed to him the glorious mystery (Ephesians 3:1-9)?

This mystery is that, thanks to Israel rejection of Jesus in Acts, the new creation, the Body of Christ, where all of us believers belong to, can now be saved without any covenant (Ephesians 1:7-9)?

I certainly think so. Do you think this "another way" might be possible?

Dan Perez said:

And how are Jews being saved today in the AGE OF GRACE ?

I say that there are NO GENTILES or Jews in the BODY OF Christ and Gal 3:28 proves it .

dan p

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BABerean2 said:

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

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Solomon's Kingdom is still divided, therefore:

The Jews are the House of Judah including Benjamin+Levi: the Kingdom of Judah in the Iron age.

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are the 10-Lost-Tribes: the Kingdom of Israel in the iron age.

These are very separate designations, according to the Prophets.

Isaiah 11:12 And He shall lift up a standard for the nations, and He shall gather the (απολομένους) lost ones of Israel, and He shall gather the (διεσπαρμένους) dispersed of Juda from the four corners of the earth.


This was written just before the Assyrian captivity:

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the House of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda…[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And He said, Call his name, not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.[10]... and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.LXX
Hosea 2:1-23 [16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband (ανήρ), and shall no longer call me Baalim.[23]And I will sow her to Me on the Earth, and will love her that was not loved: and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God."LXX (Jeremiah 3:8, the House of Israel's bill of divorcement)

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

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The good news of the Reign of God (Gospel of the Kingdom)

Prophecied:

Isaiah 52:3-7 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have been sold for nought; and ye shall not be ransomed with silver.[4] Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.
[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the Gentiles.
[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.LXX

Fulfilled:

Matthew 10:5-7 [5] These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

Guojing said:

Yes, I agree with you that scripture states the following

1. Israel was under the Old Covenant
2. Israel will be under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8, Jeremiah 31:31)

But would you consider that the ascended Christ saved Paul and revealed to him the glorious mystery (Ephesians 3:1-9)?

This mystery is that, thanks to Israel rejection of Jesus in Acts, the new creation, the Body of Christ, where all of us believers belong to, can now be saved without any covenant (Ephesians 1:7-9)?

I certainly think so. Do you think this "another way" might be possible?

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"The another way" was spoken in Matthew's Sermon on the Mount: it is Kingdom Law:

Matthew 5:19-20 (...His Disciples came unto Him and He opened His mouth and taught them...) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Matthew 5:27-29 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.[29] And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jeremiah 32:37-41 Behold, I will gather them out of every land where I have scattered them in My anger and My wrath and great fury, and I will bring them back into this place, and will cause them to dwell safely:[38] and they shall be to Me a People and I will be to them a God.[39] And I will give them another way, and another heart, to fear Me continually, and that for good to them and their children after them.[40] And I will make with them an Everlasting Covenant, which I will by no means turn away from them, and I will put My fear into their heart, that they may not depart from Me.[41] And I will visit them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land in faithfulness, and with all My heart, and with all My soul.LXX

(audience: 12 Lost Sheep of the House of Israel)
Matthew 26:27-28 And He took the cup and gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it:[28] for this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
John 15:1-8 I am the true vine and My Father is the husbandman.[2] Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

HARK! said:

Can you point out the chapter and verse for me? Israel (the Northern Tribes) rejected YHWH, became Gentiles, and were carried off to, before Yahshua walked the earth.

Yahshua reunites Yah's people as one Israel.

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Romans 11:11

Romans 11:25

HARK! said:

In the time of Noah, do you believe that you could have built your own ark and been saved?

(CLV) Jn 14:6
Jesus is saying to him, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. Not one is coming to the Father except through Me.

(CLV) Jn 10:7
Jesus, then, said to them again, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that I am the Door of the sheep.

(CLV) Jn 10:1
"Verily, verily, I am saying to you, he who is not entering through the door into the fold of the sheep, but is climbing up elsewhere, that one is a thief and a robber.

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In the time of Noah, had I believe Noah's preaching that there will be a flood coming. I would have entered the ark together with him, and be saved.

HARK! said:

No it doesn't. I suspect a faulty translation.

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You mean you believe Israel was never under the Old Covenant of Law, even after Exodus 24 clearly stated

3 When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.

He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

You have another interpretaion of this passage?

HARK! said:

He's not speaking of Israel here. Again, Israel (the Northern tribes) had been carried off, long before. He's speaking of the members of the remaining tribes. Thousands and thousands accepted him, including Paul.

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Romans 11:11 in context

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

"they" in vs 11 can only refer to Israel in vs 7. I am reading literally what Paul is saying

HARK! said:

"Old" covenant cannot be found in the Greek nor Hebrew manuscripts. It's an invention of man. It YHWH's covenant. He renewed it.

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Okay, if I changed the term into "The covenant of Law", would that be acceptable to you?

HARK! said:

So you wouldn't have gone your own way? You would have gone the way YHWH instructed?

That's good!

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You were asking me a direct question, and I gave you an answer.

But going back to my direct question to you "would that another way be possible", are you ready to answer that now?