Why isnt isnt it ok to sin?

Faithfulandtrue · Mar 4, 2015

it seems you need to know what sin is. Sin is anything that is offensive to God who is holy and perfect. Since the fall of man when adam and eve disobeyed God and ate of the tree, we all as human beings now have a sinful nature that we as Christians need to wrestle with. The Bible has many passages about those who are truly saved will repent of their sins and live a life pleasing to God. Jesus himself also said if you love me you would do the things my Father commands. And many times in the new testament, ie: talking with the Samaritan woman, healing the blind man, ect. He commanded them to repent and faithfully so did the Church in the other books of the new testament. So if we as Christians love our God and want to be in a close relationship with Him we will turn away from out sins, (things God see's as evil and that He does hate). Now with all that said because we are still humans,even after being saved, we will go through times when we will still sin because we still have a sinful nature as humans. BUT the difference is that we are battling against our sinful nature instead of trying to please it, and we come before God and confess our sins in order to show Him we are sorry for them. God understands that we will sin and understands us more than we understand ourselves(He is our Creator) so don't go only one way and think its okay to sin because its not and don't be too far in the depression over sins that you have confessed either. Jesus died so He could cover our sins and so God the Father would forgive us and be reconciled with us, but if we love Him in return we will do our best to please Him.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world? 23Jesus answered him, If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Fathers who sent me. John 14

These are just two of many verses

Hetta · Mar 4, 2015

lori milne said:
What if they are in church serving and for 20-30 years but are slaves to sin that they justify, with God will forgive my sin? And not feel bad or attempt to repent even ? Just willfully sin ! Smoke, drink profanity , adultery: lusting, secular music/ movies / tattooed. Is the Christian church today justifying sin so much that we all think it's ok to sin or is it truly ok? And God just forgives by grace :/-

There is nothing sinful about drinking alcohol, smoking, secular music, movies or tattoos. So, no need to worry about those things.

Shieldmaiden4Christ · Mar 4, 2015

Sinning harms the self and the community.

Strathos · Mar 4, 2015

If you think you can sin all you want because you're forgiven, you've totally missed the point of Christianity.

ViaCrucis · Mar 4, 2015

lori milne said:
What if they are in church serving and for 20-30 years but are slaves to sin that they justify, with God will forgive my sin? And not feel bad or attempt to repent even ? Just willfully sin ! Smoke, drink profanity , adultery: lusting, secular music/ movies / tattooed. Is the Christian church today justifying sin so much that we all think it's ok to sin or is it truly ok? And God just forgives by grace :/-

Well for one, most of the things you mentioned aren't sins--smoking, drinking, music, movies, tattoos, etc.

Secondly a Christian who thinks, "Since grace shall abound I ought to go on sinning." is not a person of faith.

I'm a fan of how Martin Luther defines faith here:

"Instead, faith is Gods work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesnt stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words.

Faith is a living, bold trust in Gods grace, so certain of Gods favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of Gods grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think theyre smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do." - Martin Luther's Introduction to St. Paul's Letter to the Romans, AD 1522

The fact remains that the Christian is a sinner and will sin. And the Christian will struggle his/her entire life with the problem of sin. Faith does not grant one immunity from sin, but faith, because it is the work of God, turns us toward Him. The faithful heart therefore desires to do good works, even though it should fail (and fail often).

The faithful heart is a heart of contrition and repentance, of confession.

The Christian will continue to sin, miss the mark, and rightfully comprehend that God's Law condemns him/her on the merit of God's righteousness and holiness; which is also why the faithful Christian is contrite and penitent. The Christian who does not confess her or his sins, who begins to grow arrogant in their own self perceived righteousness, or who imagines that they can say, "Grace shall abound, I shall go on sinning." removes themselves from faith, abandons faith, quenching it, squashing it, starving it until no faith shall remain.

So what is to stop a Christian from happily sinning day after day without contrition, without repentance? Faith.

-CryptoLutheran

lori milne · Mar 5, 2015

I'm pretty sure getting drunk is a sin and smoking kills you so that's like murder or suicide and secular movies all basically have sex scenes so that's if your lusting after the flesh which I'm sure if your not a sexual is considered adultery / fornication.

lori milne · Mar 5, 2015

Oh yea tattoos is desecrating the temple of God it's considered like profanity or using Gods name in vane

pittsflyer · Mar 5, 2015

WE have defined "marriage" a certian way in the west, and that is a piece of paper issued by the state (that does not apply biblical pricipals in family law courts). The harm is leaving a person you have had sex with and having sex with someone else.

If girl meets boy, they have sex and live happiliy ever after without a piece of paper that is not sin. If boy meets girl they have sex and one of them does something to warrent a "divorce" then you can find someone else. The one that did the something (cheat, leave, abuse, neglect, etc) is the one that sinned against the other.

Its not the sex before "marriage" that is the sin, its the using and disposing of another human being that is a sin. The bible does not define what constitutes a marriage (other than sex consumates it) it is up to the society. But when society has introduced ungodly pricipals in its family law courts I then you are on your own as an individual couple as to what to do. Thats what I think.

Resha Caner said:
You can prove to me it does no harm?

Paradoxum · Mar 5, 2015

Resha Caner said:
Do you want to place a bet on whether you'll make it to the end of this conversation?

No, I like my money.

Jerry Seinfeld does a comedy routine about how his night-self makes decisions that his morning-self hates. It's not only funny, but very insightful. Given you've never had a tracheotomy, emphysema, lung cancer, etc. I'm not sure your decision is well-informed. Your future self is likely to regret some of what your current self is doing. But ... I know how little influence my views have with you.

I've done stupid things, but I consider them mistakes, not immoral.

I agree that I might regret somethings when I'm older (or I might be fine), but that's an issue of wisdom and informed decisions, not morality.

You moral views have little influence on me (I suspect they are based on tradition, not reason, care and respect), but if you talked about wisdom for the future, that'd probably make more sense to me. No offence meant.

The benefit to whom?

Me.

It depends. Can I break open the radiator on my car anywhere I please?

I don't know what that does. If that's a problem, I'd guess the problem is blocking the road, or getting harmful car juice on the floor... not the breaking of property itself.

What would this be an analogy of? Having sex in the middle of the road and getting in the way?

Paradoxum · Mar 5, 2015

stevenfrancis said:
This is a disturbing philosophy. It seems to be gaining prevalence as western civilization and culture continues to disintegrate. As disturbing as it is as a philosophy, it's even worse as theology. It's theologically unsound and unsupportable.

Why is it disturbing? I'm not saying we should murder or torture anyone. It's just people consensually acting in private.

To live a life of sin is not freedom, if that's where you're going with this. Freedom is the ability to do what is right. Living a life of sin, and promoting such a way of life is slavery. It is a confusion and perversion of freedom into what is merely license. License is the ability to do whatever one pleases without civil interference. It is of no account regarding ones soul and eternity.

I don't think sex outside marriage is sin. Falsely saying X is sin, when it isn't, is slavery to irrational puritanism.

No one is violated or harmed without consent... so what's the problem?

Some thoughts on sin by Jesus and His Apostles:

I'm not Christian.

Yes, Jesus took on the sin of the world. He took merciless beatings, humiliation, and a painful death for us, so that we may choose to be with Him in paradise for eternity. It is still a choice. We vote with our feet. How we live our lives. Where we go. What we do. Who we associate with. The priorities we set in our lives. Once we are baptized into the body of Christ, if we are choosing Him as our eternal reward, we are at a very minimum, keeping in mind that we are the body of Christ, and attempting to live our lives to that end. Are we perfect? No. We stumble and fall. But when that does it occur, (which is less and less the more reliant we become on Christ), we are immediately, and deeply repentant, and sorrowful for our actions, rather than justifying our actions as not being "harmful", or finding some way to dress them up as anything other than what they are.

Sex outside marriage is perfectly morally. It doesn't violate or harm anyone against their consent. Saying it is wrong is just as weird as saying eating cheese is sin. It's irrational, and shows a perverted conscience.

One, (even after being "saved", may also choose an eternity far away from God. We are given this ability as well. If we choose sin over God. If we choose to mock and defile His gifts, and we die while in an immoral state without repentance or sorrow, then we are choosing to spend eternity without God. This is what hell is.

I'm confident that if there's a good God, that he agrees with me.

Yes, there is infinite mercy. Yes there is an infinite number of times we may be forgiven. But to obtain this, we must be in friendship with God, and therefore striving to live in imitation of Christ to the best of our ability, and not take our salvation for granted. To obtain mercy, we must first seek it. And why would we seek it, if we have fooled ourselves into believing that we haven't sinned? If you don't believe you're a sinner, then you're likely to lose the ability to be ashamed, and to seek forgiveness.

Well I don't believe in God anyway.

I am speaking to myself as much as anyone else. Perhaps even more so. So please don't take offense at my piping in here. These are just some ideas that I hope may be food for thought.

And please take no offence from my reply. I'm just putting down my thoughts a bit strongly to try to make my point.

lori milne · Mar 5, 2015

According to Christian faith and a lot of others sex outside of marriage is fornication or adultery it is in fact a sin, I don't know anyone who can get married and say it isn't before God unless you choose to do it differently then the original / traditional marriage ceremony

lori milne · Mar 5, 2015

This thread is about sinning btw and why isn't it ok if your a Christian

Resha Caner · Mar 5, 2015

Paradoxum said:
I don't know what that does. If that's a problem, I'd guess the problem is blocking the road, or getting harmful car juice on the floor... not the breaking of property itself.

What would this be an analogy of? Having sex in the middle of the road and getting in the way?

Umm. This was your example. I just answered it. You gave an example and you don't know how it relates to what we're discussing?

Paradoxum said:
I've done stupid things, but I consider them mistakes, not immoral.

We were talking about the harm sin causes. Morality was not the issue. Losing track already?

Paradoxum said:
You moral views have little influence on me ...

Well, again, we're talking about social strictures, not morals. Regardless, didn't I just say my views have no affect on you? That may or may not be a problem.

Paradoxum said:
Me.

Yes. So now I can reply to "narrow and self-centered." You didn't even mention consideration for whether sex benefits your partner. It was just, "Me." It is obvious that is all you consider ... despite what you may say to the contrary. Narrow and self-centered, i.e. your idea of benefit/harm only considers what benefits/harms you.

For example, you can't imagine why pre-marital sex would cause harm. But in fact, the list is rather long. Pre-marital sex means uncommitted sex. Maybe you'll object with something about how you don't need a piece of paper to establish commitment, but I disagree. "I and this guy are committed even though we never really talked about it and he or I can leave whenever we want and there's nothing to hold him responsible if this goes bad or if I need help. I mean, we did the pinky swear."

Uncommitted sex means it's possible he has had many partners - many he may not tell you about - which increases the risk of disease. Then there is the people who will be hurt by pretending there is commitment when there isn't (or pretending commitment doesn't matter). There is the possibility of pregnancy. The list goes on for how this could cause harm ... harm to people other than you.

Maybe that matters to me. Maybe it doesn't. Putting aside the simple fact I don't like people to get hurt, the question is whether you live in my society. If you're not going to expect police protection from overbearing boyfriends, health care for venereal disease, child support for pregnancy, etc. If you don't expect any of those things, then, yes, there is no reason for me to put social strictures on you. But if you expect those things - things that have a cost to me, I have a right to minimize the impact on me, and that means restricting your behavior.

You don't live in this world alone, so "Me" is not an acceptable answer.

terryjohn · Mar 5, 2015

It is impossible to please God without faith. What is not of faith is sin. It is our relationship to Christ that determines our sin. We may do many good things but reject Gods grace and we are lost. All things are possible but all things are not beneficial. If we are not saved by grace, we are not saved at all.

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2015

lori milne said:
I'm pretty sure getting drunk is a sin and smoking kills you so that's like murder or suicide and secular movies all basically have sex scenes so that's if your lusting after the flesh which I'm sure if your not a sexual is considered adultery / fornication.

If unhealthy things are sins, then that also includes eating pizza, hamburgers, anything with excess sugar, or simply having a high caloric diet when you don't need one. It would also mean that not regularly exercising is sinful. It would mean going outside in winter without a coat or jacket is sinful. It would mean any kind of imbalanced diet, any failure to get enough exercise, or going and hanging out with someone who has the common cold is sinful. And, frankly, that's stupid.

Drinking alcohol is not sinful, Jesus not only in the miracle at Cana turned water into wine (not "grape juice" but wine) but also at the Last Supper instituted the drinking of wine (along with the eating of bread) as the Sacrament of Communion which all churches continue to celebrate. It also ignores the fact that on multiple occasions the Bible celebrates alcohol as a gift, in Deuteronomy 14 the people of Israel are commanded to use a small percentage of their money to buy food and drink as a celebration. Specifically:

"With the money secure in hand, go to the place that the Lord your God will choose; spend the money for whatever you wishoxen, sheep, wine, strong drink, or whatever you desire. And you shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your household rejoicing together." - Deuteronomy 14:25-26

If you have a problem with movies with explicit nudity or sexual content--don't watch them. But that hardly describes most movies, I think it's fairly safe to say that there was no gratuitous nudity in the last Disney animated feature I watched, or the last Marvel film I watched. So no, cinema is not sinful and it's silly to suggest it is.

lori milne said:
Oh yea tattoos is desecrating the temple of God it's considered like profanity or using Gods name in vane

No. The teaching in the New Testament that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit involves a prohibition against having sex with temple prostitutes. Not with tattooing, which is not sinful, and is not a desecration of the body.

The Old Testament does have a prohibition against tattoos or marking the flesh, but it also, in the same breath, prohibits men shaving the sides of their beard. And if you want to abide by Torah then you should obey all of those commandments not pick and choose which ones you think are relevant, because in Judaism the Torah is still observed. In Christianity the Torah has never been observed because Christianity teaches that with the coming of Jesus as the Messiah God has inaugurated a "new covenant" with the world. Which is why Christians don't make offerings of bulls and goats, or grain. Which is why Christians don't have dietary laws proscribing what meats are clean or unclean. Which is why Christians don't practice circumcision. Which is why Christians don't have women go and separate themselves from the community during their menstrual cycle or send men away if they have a "night time emission".

The things you have mentioned here are only categorized as "sins" in certain rather conservative Fundamentalist churches which is of no concern to the vast majority of Christians or Christian churches whose understanding of sin doesn't come out Victorian cultural mores but out of God's commandments to love our neighbor and act justly.

Ignoring the hungry man sitting in a ditch when you walk by on the street is a sin. Spreading gossip about your neighbor is a sin. Hating or despising a fellow human being is a sin. Holding a grudge is a sin. Worshiping another god other than God is a sin. Saying horrible things to or about another person is a sin. Greed, malice, selfishness, hate, pride, etc are sins.

Watching television, smoking a cigar, buying a lottery ticket, eating a candy bar, not going to the gym, or getting a tattoo that says "I heart Mom" aren't sins.

Doing something stupid isn't sinful.
Doing something unhealthy isn't sinful.
Engaging in words and actions (or even inaction) that violate the Great Commandment to love God and to love our neighbor are sins.

A diet consisting only of cake and pizza is both unhealthy and stupid, but it's not sinful.

-CryptoLutheran

Resha Caner · Mar 6, 2015

ViaCrucis said:
A diet consisting only of cake and pizza is both unhealthy and stupid, but it's not sinful.

Careful.

Ana the Ist · Mar 6, 2015

Resha Caner said:
That's an oxymoron. By its very definition sin does those things.

What about lustful thoughts? Who do they hurt?

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2015

Resha Caner said:
Careful.

I'm not sure I understand.

Unhealthy eating habits aren't sinful. I simply don't know of any way to argue on the contrary.

Gluttony--excessive over-indulgence--is sinful; but a diet consisting primarily of processed foods and other various forms of junk food is not sinful. It's not healthy, it's not smart, but it's not sinful.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
What about lustful thoughts? Who do they hurt?

Sexual desire isn't sinful.

The objectification of another human being, however, robs them of their dignity and the good and just treatment that is to be given them as people.

When I see a beautiful woman and my body's ordinary functions activate isn't a sin. But it is absolutely unacceptable for me to look at a woman as nothing more than a walking pair of breasts and thus dehumanize her. Even if it's only in my own mind.

-CryptoLutheran

lori milne · Mar 6, 2015

ViaCrucis said:
If unhealthy things are sins, then that also includes eating pizza, hamburgers, anything with excess sugar, or simply having a high caloric diet when you don't need one. It would also mean that not regularly exercising is sinful. It would mean going outside in winter without a coat or jacket is sinful. It would mean any kind of imbalanced diet, any failure to get enough exercise, or going and hanging out with someone who has the common cold is sinful. And, frankly, that's stupid. Drinking alcohol is not sinful, Jesus not only in the miracle at Cana turned water into wine (not "grape juice" but wine) but also at the Last Supper instituted the drinking of wine (along with the eating of bread) as the Sacrament of Communion which all churches continue to celebrate. It also ignores the fact that on multiple occasions the Bible celebrates alcohol as a gift, in Deuteronomy 14 the people of Israel are commanded to use a small percentage of their money to buy food and drink as a celebration. Specifically: "With the money secure in hand, go to the place that the Lord your God will choose; spend the money for whatever you wishoxen, sheep, wine, strong drink, or whatever you desire. And you shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your household rejoicing together." - Deuteronomy 14:25-26 If you have a problem with movies with explicit nudity or sexual content--don't watch them. But that hardly describes most movies, I think it's fairly safe to say that there was no gratuitous nudity in the last Disney animated feature I watched, or the last Marvel film I watched. So no, cinema is not sinful and it's silly to suggest it is. No. The teaching in the New Testament that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit involves a prohibition against having sex with temple prostitutes. Not with tattooing, which is not sinful, and is not a desecration of the body. The Old Testament does have a prohibition against tattoos or marking the flesh, but it also, in the same breath, prohibits men shaving the sides of their beard. And if you want to abide by Torah then you should obey all of those commandments not pick and choose which ones you think are relevant, because in Judaism the Torah is still observed. In Christianity the Torah has never been observed because Christianity teaches that with the coming of Jesus as the Messiah God has inaugurated a "new covenant" with the world. Which is why Christians don't make offerings of bulls and goats, or grain. Which is why Christians don't have dietary laws proscribing what meats are clean or unclean. Which is why Christians don't practice circumcision. Which is why Christians don't have women go and separate themselves from the community during their menstrual cycle or send men away if they have a "night time emission". The things you have mentioned here are only categorized as "sins" in certain rather conservative Fundamentalist churches which is of no concern to the vast majority of Christians or Christian churches whose understanding of sin doesn't come out Victorian cultural mores but out of God's commandments to love our neighbor and act justly. Ignoring the hungry man sitting in a ditch when you walk by on the street is a sin. Spreading gossip about your neighbor is a sin. Hating or despising a fellow human being is a sin. Holding a grudge is a sin. Worshiping another god other than God is a sin. Saying horrible things to or about another person is a sin. Greed, malice, selfishness, hate, pride, etc are sins. Watching television, smoking a cigar, buying a lottery ticket, eating a candy bar, not going to the gym, or getting a tattoo that says "I heart Mom" aren't sins. Doing something stupid isn't sinful. Doing something unhealthy isn't sinful. Engaging in words and actions (or even inaction) that violate the Great Commandment to love God and to love our neighbor are sins. A diet consisting only of cake and pizza is both unhealthy and stupid, but it's not sinful. -CryptoLutheran

This is a very clear passage about your body being the temple.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. ([bless and do not curse]

1 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]16-18‬ KJV)

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