Why Is This An Issue?

ChaliceThunder · Aug 3, 2007

jad123 said:
Scapegoat? From What? Have you even read any of the other boards? Gays are NOT the only ones being held accountable for their sins.

Gays are the favored scapegoat of certain Christians these days. We are a target. We are not the only one, but we most certainly are the high profile target nonetheless.

SpazNStuff · Aug 3, 2007

Zaac said:
Ungh ungh. Right is based upon what God SAYS. Promiscuity ain't got a thing to do with sin. If it's sin the 50th time, it was sin the first time.

You mean you CHOOSE not to use it. Homosexuals granted the aegis of marriage still aren't in a marriage covenant with Christ and are still guilty of fornicating if they have sex with each other.

The Bible says 1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 1 Cor. 7:1-2

If God says this, 1 time is as much fornication as is the 3000th time.

Does God's Word say that fornication is no longer fornication if two people are in a long term relationship?

You completely took that verse out of context. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with the fact that marriage, though it does bring joy, will also bring suffering, so it is better not to marry, and instead devote yourself to God, but it is better to marry rather than burn with passion and go to a prostitute.

SpazNStuff · Aug 3, 2007

ChaliceThunder said:
Gays are the favored scapegoat of certain Christians these days. We are a target. We are not the only one, but we most certainly are the high profile target nonetheless.

I'm not even sure if homosexuality is a sin.
It's mentioned in the Bible three times, and two of those times is in the Old Testament, which, as we all know, was there to help the Jews in their walk with God. Not the Gentiles.
The one time it's mentioned in the new testament might be nullified by the context in which Paul is speaking.

GwynApNudd · Aug 3, 2007

SpazNStuff said:
You completely took that verse completely out of context. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with the fact that marriage, though it does bring joy, will also bring suffering, so it is better not to marry, and instead devote yourself to God, but it is better to marry rather than burn with passion and go to a prostitute.

Welcome to CF.

I have a (virtual) care package for you. In it you'll find:

A TOOTHPICK - To remind you to pick out the good qualities in others
A RUBBER BAND - To remind you to be flexible, things might not always go the way you want, but it will work out.
A BAND AID - To remind you to heal hurt feelings, yours or someone else's.
A PENCIL - To remind you to list your blessings everyday.
AN ERASER - To remind you that everyone makes mistakes and that it's OK.
A CHEWING GUM - To remind you to stick with it and you can accomplish anything.
A MINT - To remind you that you are worth a mint.
A HERSHEY'S CANDY - To remind you that everyone needs a kiss or a hug every day.
A TEA BAG - To remind you that you never know how strong you are until you find yourself in hot water.

SpazNStuff · Aug 4, 2007

GwynApNudd said:
Welcome to CF.

I have a (virtual) care package for you. In it you'll find:

A TOOTHPICK - To remind you to pick out the good qualities in others

A RUBBER BAND - To remind you to be flexible, things might not always go the way you want, but it will work out.

A BAND AID - To remind you to heal hurt feelings, yours or someone else's.

A PENCIL - To remind you to list your blessings everyday.

AN ERASER - To remind you that everyone makes mistakes and that it's OK.

A CHEWING GUM - To remind you to stick with it and you can accomplish anything.

A MINT - To remind you that you are worth a mint.

A HERSHEY'S CANDY - To remind you that everyone needs a kiss or a hug every day.

A TEA BAG - To remind you that you never know how strong you are until you find yourself in hot water.

Woah.
Thanks for the virtual stuff!
I love stuff!
Mmmm. Candy.

Apollo Celestio · Aug 4, 2007

MrPirate said:
There were and are people who view racial equality as a sin.
Can you not understand why they view it as sin?
Are you suggesting that racists are not bigots?

I can't understand why they would view racial equality as a sin. I can understand that people view homosexuality as a sin because the BIBLE tells us so.

D.W.Washburn · Aug 4, 2007

Ishida said:
I can't understand why they would view racial equality as a sin. I can understand that people view homosexuality as a sin because the BIBLE tells us so.

The Bible has been, and still is, used to defend the idea of racial segregation. I'd suggest doing a Google search on "Bible segregation" and see what you get. Be warned, however, some of it is ugly and hate-filled.

Among the arguments for segragation, you will find a lot of quotes from the OT purity codes. And a lot of appeals to "the Bible tells us so."

BigBadWlf · Aug 4, 2007

Ishida said:
I can't understand why they would view racial equality as a sin. I can understand that people view homosexuality as a sin because the BIBLE tells us so.

Some people interpret a few biblical verses to say that God has non-whites are social inferiors to whites and as such racial equality is morally wrong.
Just as some people interpret a few biblical verses to say that homosexuality is morally wrong

RegularGuy has already suggested some research on the topic. And I have to agree most of it is hateful and rather ugly. But then the same can be said of those using the bible against our gay and lesbian brother and sisters as well. I suggest if you do take the time to read u on the use of the bible to justify racism you compare the arguments being used with the arguments being used to attack homosexualsthey are almost completely identical.

united4Peace · Aug 4, 2007

irateional said:
I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

Homosexuality is not an issue...
Only an issue to those who have nothing better to do than to stick their noses into others affairs...(maybe they have no one to love them or maybe they are closet homosexuals themselves and that is why they are stuck on the issue)...
What is an issue is Poverty, look around and see how many people live out on the streets...
Around where I live there are people who cannot afford homes, who live in the parks (and I live in a small town),and these are working families to boot because housing is so high and scarce and rentals are very high on demand...
People have no where to go...no proper places to live...
Then there are the ones who have absolutley nothing...the ones without the jobs, the drug addicts, the prostitutes, the runaways and they get told they arnt wanted anywhere because they're no good for anyone...
We need to open not only open our hearts but our Eyes and take a good look around us and start looking at what really is important...
I do apologize for the rant

UberLutheran · Aug 4, 2007

Because, when it comes to Scripture, it's important for some people and some groups, particularly fundamentalists, to be right.

Never mind the fact that God would still be the God of the Universe and the God of creation if a passage of Genesis or a passage of Leviticus might actually be read out of context (if all the men of Sodom where homosexual and the "sin of Sodom" was homosexuality, then where did the children and infants come from and how do we explain Ezekiel 16:59-50; and could the laws of Leviticus possibly be created for a specific people in a specific time and not be applicable today?); never mind that passages in Romans 1, and 1 Corinthians 5 and 6 really ought to be read in the context of not just the whole letter but of all of Paul's writings and even the Gospels; never mind that Luke (and Paul in Romans and Galatians) stressed the equality of men and women, freemen and slaves, Jews and Gentiles, etc. before Christ; never mind that the whole focus of Romans and Galatians and Ephesians is our freedom in Christ, through Christ's death and resurrection and our justification before God through Christ no, the important thing is to be able to use Scripture in such a way as to prove that they are right; even if it means using Scripture as a blunt instrument, even if it means killing the faith of someone who dares disagree with these fundamentalists, even if those whose interpretations or "lifestyles" disagree with fundamentalist interpretations and as such these people are turned into second and third class citizens who are fit for little more than being the dirt under fundamentalists' feet and these same fundamentalists make sure that these dissenters know their place no: the important thing is being right, even if "being right" turns into a god (small "g") unto itself.

We mustn't alter a 2,000 year old tradition of heterosexual men keeping women, gays, lesbians, Jews, non-Christians, and dissenters from knowing their place and doing whatever it takes to keep these people locked rigidly in their place, even if doing so goes completely against the letter and spirit of the Gospels and the Epistles.

THAT'S why this is an issue: because women, gays, lesbians, Jews, non-Christians and dissenters (both Christian and non-Christian) have finally gotten tired of "knowing our place" and being kept in it.

UberLutheran · Aug 4, 2007

DMagoh said:
They are out to get the "sympathy vote". If they can just get people to start believing that they are the "blacks of the 21st century"...

I assume you're talking about "liberals", of course...

Floatingaxe · Aug 4, 2007

In God's view, sexual sins weigh more than many others. He speaks of heavier punishment for such sin. They cause deep strongholds in lives that need major spiritual intervention.

Sexual sins cause people to abandon God. They also pervert the person's heart and mind to the truth of who God is and what He deems acceptable behaviour.

It affects the basic fabric of their souls...it is serious.

david_x · Aug 4, 2007

Why Is This An Issue?

I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

People deny that it is as sin.

irateional · Aug 6, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
In God's view, sexual sins weigh more than many others. He speaks of heavier punishment for such sin. They cause deep strongholds in lives that need major spiritual intervention.

Sexual sins cause people to abandon God. They also pervert the person's heart and mind to the truth of who God is and what He deems acceptable behaviour.

It affects the basic fabric of their souls...it is serious.

So let me follow this. And others can come in to defend this too.

I can wake up in the morning. Allow an african militia to buy 15,000 ak47's, that I know will be used in genocide, and that's nowhere near as bad of a sin as me comitting a sexual sin?

Continuing with that...what do we use to define homosexuality as a sin?

How can we use the OT? I think it's better to live life in such a manner, that I do not care what is sin. I care about what is best for my fellow man. I place faith in Jesus to forgive me of my trespasses, becuase at the end fo the day, I'm always going to be sinning against him in some way.

Floatingaxe · Aug 6, 2007

irateional said:
So let me follow this. And others can come in to defend this too.

I can wake up in the morning. Allow an african militia to buy 15,000 ak47's, that I know will be used in genocide, and that's nowhere near as bad of a sin as me comitting a sexual sin?

Continuing with that...what do we use to define homosexuality as a sin?

How can we use the OT? I think it's better to live life in such a manner, that I do not care what is sin. I care about what is best for my fellow man. I place faith in Jesus to forgive me of my trespasses, becuase at the end fo the day, I'm always going to be sinning against him in some way.

"I think"
"I do not care..."
"I care..."
"I..."

Read about what God thinks and cares about. Take it up with Him. I have told you what the Word says.

dayhiker · Aug 6, 2007

irateional said:
I'm serious.

Why are we debating homosexuality when out of all the sins we need to be "fighting against" we focus on this one?

I mean seriously folks, homosexuality warrants more attention than:

-lying
-the commercializiation/consumerism of current Christian culture
-The fact that "Christian" leaders are committing atrocities all around the world
-That we have done nothing to build up friendships with people from other faiths as a whole
-Or that the majority of non-Christians and increasingly larger numbers of Christians are falling away from a church which they feel cares more about dogma than people.

I'm seriously asking. I can't see how a sexual act is such a big issue. Sin or not, we're all sinning, all the time. I"m sure most of us lie at times. Or get angry at others. Or have lustful thoughts. Why do we go out of our way to focus on gays?

I think you make some very valid points. I've asked for years by the church is fighting homosexual marriage. What spend this much effort to keep 3% of the population from being able to marry and totally guessing less than 50% of the 3% would marry anyways.

Seems to me like a lot of effort for almost no effect on how people would live. Only effect would be some govermenal laws that rob people of freedom resulting in fines and jail time for privately touching someone.

We should spend our time telling people that Jesus loves them. That He wants to change their heart.
dayhiker

dayhiker · Aug 6, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
In God's view, sexual sins weigh more than many others. He speaks of heavier punishment for such sin. They cause deep strongholds in lives that need major spiritual intervention.

Sexual sins cause people to abandon God. They also pervert the person's heart and mind to the truth of who God is and what He deems acceptable behaviour.

It affects the basic fabric of their souls...it is serious.

HI float ... good to see you,

In my talking to people, I find that more people have walked away from Jesus because the church told them things were sin that the Bible doesn't say was a sin. So Christianity became a set of laws that took all the fun out of life and made no sense to them.

No these guys understood they should love God and love people(not hurt them). But they didn't understand how going bowling was a sin, how playing a board game was a sin, how going to a movie was sin, now kissing and holding hands was a sin, how taking a drink of a beer was a sin, how going skinny dipping was a sin.
They understood how raling a girl was a sin, how stealing another guys girl was a sin, how driving drunk and killing one was a sin. So my freinds that attended church with me and went to Christian summer camp said Christianity makes now sense. Now they don't love Jesus any more.

So that's why I think its manmade laws that keep people from Jesus. That's why I think Jesus spend quite a bit of his time breaking man made laws to love people and as a result the people flocked to Jesus and love how he put the religious leaders in their place.

dayhiker

tulc · Aug 6, 2007

Read about what God thinks and cares about. Take it up with Him. I have told you what the Word says.

...don't all our replies get down to "I believe this"? you pull out your views we pull out ours, then we shake them at each other.
tulc(we should probably try and remember that)

UberLutheran · Aug 6, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
In God's view, sexual sins weigh more than many others. He speaks of heavier punishment for such sin. They cause deep strongholds in lives that need major spiritual intervention.

Sexual sins cause people to abandon God. They also pervert the person's heart and mind to the truth of who God is and what He deems acceptable behaviour.

It affects the basic fabric of their souls...it is serious.

Spiritual pride, on the other hand, is an itty-bitty, namby-pamby sin -- especially because it allows us to feel good about ourselves and righteous before God because of the things we do at the expense of other people, while we're completely shoving God out of the picture.

UberLutheran · Aug 6, 2007

david_x said:
People deny that it is as sin.

So what?

Seriously: so what if they "deny that it is a sin"?

That affects you directly in what way?

I don't believe there was a literal Adam or a literal Eve or a literal Garden of Eden.

Why should that affect you in any way, whatsoever?

If people said, "All right, homosexuality IS a sin" -- exactly how would that improve your life one iota?

By allowing you to be "right"?

Well, so what if you're "right"?

And so what if people don't agree with you.

I'd like to know exactly how people like you, floatingaxe, IAmRedeemed, DMagoh, etc. are affected directly if someone doesn't think homosexuality is a sin -- or if they have a statue of the Blessed Virgin on their home altar, or they believe that bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, or they don't believe in a literal Garden of Eden.

How is what someone believes -- or doesn't believe -- going to change your life even one iota, and why should that even bother you?

Why Is This An Issue?

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Deal with it.

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