Why is there no middle ground in parenting?

gracepaints · Aug 6, 2008

Wow - I don't have the energy to even discuss most of this. Why? Because I am a full-time, totally attached mama. I assure you, if this were for MY benefit - I would give this kid a bottle already, stick him in daycare and go spend my day with other adults. This is NOT the easy way and he is still too young for me to be seeing most of the supposed benefits of attachement parenting. I'm doing it anyway, because I believe in it.

I understand your frustration with the polarized dicotomies of parenting. I had them too before my baby was born. It feels like all you hear are the extremists and they can be practically deafening at times. Just remember that all along that spectrum are REAL PEOPLE making the best choices they can for their own kids. Do what's best for yours and don't worry about everyone else, what they are doing and what they think.

seige · Aug 6, 2008

gracepaints said:
It feels like all you hear are the extremists and they can be practically deafening at times. Just remember that all along that spectrum are REAL PEOPLE making the best choices they can for their own kids. Do what's best for yours and don't worry about everyone else, what they are doing and what they think.

As far as the "for the mother" comment- I agree it can be for the father as well- I was just meaning that often what we do for our children (or anything else for that matter) is to fulfill a need we have. Attachment parenting IS more difficult- but do you see how it could satisfy a need for a parent- "It's hard and I'm doing it so it means I'm doing EVERYTHING I can for my child = I'm a good parent = my child will come out great"

I'm not judging, it's just often things satisfy a need for us- do you see what I'm saying? What does tend to happen, though, is then we set the bar high and judge those who don't do what we do for our kids "they don't attachment parent = they are bad parents = their kids will be jerks" See what I'm saying. I think attachment parenting is great, I also think that it isn't the only way or the best way (I don't think there is a best way for ANYTHING concerning parenting except what is the best thing for YOUR child) necessarily.

We're kinda getting into the whole reason I started this thread in the first place- it has been implied that NOT attachment parenting is easier than other parenting methods... I don't think that is necessarily the case. I has also been implied that if you choose NOT to attachment parent, you do so because it is "easier" which leads to the implication that you are a lazy parent or aren't willing to do what is "best" for your child...

I'm not saying one way is better than the other- I think that we need to stop dividing on lines of how we parent and uniting in the fact that we are parents! God has blessed us (almost blessed me!) with children and we need to be supportive of each other. If you attachment parent- more power to you- if you don't- more power to you- if you do some kind of middle of the road between- more power to you. I think that you need to do what is best for your family and God has blessed you with the ability to discern that. Regardless of "research" quoted there is no "best way" for every child, only what is best for YOUR child.

... oh and there IS research that supports medical births- it's not popular right now and most natural birth folks think it is skewed (who knows, it probably is... as much as the research natural birth folks have quoted)... it's impossible to get a definitive answer on THIS is the BEST way and should be the ONLY way... There are risks in everything, learn about them, research them, and weigh them to work with you and your family. Whatever you decide (provided you don't decide to smoke crack to alleviate the pain and have your baby swimming in a septic tank)... I support!

jgonz · Aug 6, 2008

But you missed the point seige... Attachment parenting is something we ALL do. Attachment parenting is not a philosophy, it's just a term that describes being committed to your children, starting at birth. It's just how we attach to our kids that's different in each household. I haven't seen one post here Ever in the Parenting Forum that would be from a "detached" parent. Everyone here is very committed to their kids (unlike some people I know in real life~ my sister being one of them).

I have to disagree with you on the medical birth thing being safer... The more medical a birth is the higher the risk is for problems for the mother and the baby. A c-section, for example, is major surgery and takes Weeks to recover from. I know women who have had incredibly difficult recovery periods after a c-section, and their babies had a very difficult time waking up to nurse. It may be necessary in some cases, but it's not safer than having a normal vaginal birth (whether an epidural is used or not).

Maybe part of my problem with this is just terminology... What exactly do you mean by "medical birth"?

TexasSky · Aug 6, 2008

I think that all parents secretly live in the middle. The passionate zealots write the books and magazines though, and never admit to their own "moments in the middle."

I breast-fed and pumped so my children got the nutrients of breastfeeding and the cuddling of Dad.

I didn't spank my own, but I know parents who did, and who handled it well. (I also know some who flat out abused though, and called it spanking.)

You have to read, pray and let love guide you.

seige · Aug 6, 2008

-Ok allow me to fall off of my soapbox for a second and state my OPINION (NOT FACT!!! AND NOT FOR EVERYONE!!)

My wife and I are 100% all natural birth- we'd do it at home but we're renting and not too sure how the landlord (a good friend of ours) would feel about it so we're going the Natural Birthing Center route w/ a midwife supporter. We feel that it's the way to go, that it is the healthiest route for mom and baby- regardless of statistics (c'mon folks we know they're doctored on both sides) it is the way that works best FOR OUR FAMILY.

When I say medical birth- I mean just that- one with interventions, scheduled c-sections, etc. You can make arguments against it, but people make arguments for it as well (hence elective c-sections). It is not our place to judge- even if you think it's wrong, it is not your child and you have NO right to tell that parent how they should birth the blessing God gave them. End of story- YOUR way isn't the only way and it isn't even necessarily the "best" way, but it is YOUR WAY and your right to do it that way.

I've read quite a bit about attachment parenting and loosely used- yes we all do it- strictly used only a select few do. When Fish is talking about attachment parenting, I think she's being more strict with the term (not necessarily judgmental, just strict). We've told people that we're probably not going to co-sleep nightly and they immediately go to "But attachment parenting is so good for the baby! Statistics show..." We will be attached to our children, we won't have them going to daycare (not that I judge those who do) and we'll be co-sleeping occasionally but initially (who knows what we'll do when the kid shows) we're not planning on it being a regular thing.

-~Truth_N_Trust~- · Aug 6, 2008

lol seige, sounds like you and your wife are making a great start thinking about all this before the baby arrives!

What we believe in in theory is often quite different in practice, but having the knowledge and confidence to make your desicions calmly is so important in parenting!

FWIW, I'm certainly a middle ground mama, the bits from both worlds that work for us, whatever you decide to do at any stage of parenting will raise an eyebrow from someone, you kinda get used to it!

Leanna · Aug 6, 2008

gracepaints said:
Wow - I don't have the energy to even discuss most of this. Why? Because I am a full-time, totally attached mama. I assure you, if this were for MY benefit - I would give this kid a bottle already, stick him in daycare and go spend my day with other adults. This is NOT the easy way and he is still too young for me to be seeing most of the supposed benefits of attachement parenting. I'm doing it anyway, because I believe in it.

I understand your frustration with the polarized dicotomies of parenting. I had them too before my baby was born. It feels like all you hear are the extremists and they can be practically deafening at times. Just remember that all along that spectrum are REAL PEOPLE making the best choices they can for their own kids. Do what's best for yours and don't worry about everyone else, what they are doing and what they think.

Grace, if I offended you please send me a PM here or there. I don't think it was me though.

Amen on the real people.

Leanna · Aug 6, 2008

seige said:
When Fish is talking about attachment parenting, I think she's being more strict with the term (not necessarily judgmental, just strict). We've told people that we're probably not going to co-sleep nightly and they immediately go to "But attachment parenting is so good for the baby! Statistics show..." We will be attached to our children, we won't have them going to daycare (not that I judge those who do) and we'll be co-sleeping occasionally but initially (who knows what we'll do when the kid shows) we're not planning on it being a regular thing.

We all have our rocks that we stand on..... those things that are more important to us than others (I won't say what mine are or the place will be an uproar, lol).... I belong to an AP message board as well as a local AP group, and it is rare that a person does everything on the checklist. Though the local group is a little more intense. More often than other areas, I see a lot of loss at the 7th Baby B, http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T130300.asp "In your zeal to give so much to your baby, it's easy to neglect the needs of yourself and your marriage. As you will learn the key to putting balance in your parenting is being appropriately responsive to your baby "

Sign Of The Fish Burger · Aug 6, 2008

seige said:
(provided you don't decide to smoke crack to alleviate the pain and have your baby swimming in a septic tank)...

So wait- are you saying this isn't a good idea?

gracepaints · Aug 6, 2008

Leanna said:
Grace, if I offended you please send me a PM here or there. I don't think it was me though.

Amen on the real people.

No one offended me. You've actually been making me laugh all day. You are in rare Leanna form.

heart of peace · Aug 6, 2008

Speaking of statistics and cosleeping, I am reminded of Leanna's post a ways back about those who did not intend to cosleep who ended up cosleeping because they felt they had no other options and the resulting effects on the child's sleep long term. It was a good thread, Leanna and it really brought to light that cosleeping/not cosleeping should be a decision embarked on from the beginning and it is in the best interest of the child to not deviate from it. (I didn't post the study so technically I am still in the confines of the OP's thread requirements...lol)

Regarding the 'no right way to parent', I'm always interested in understanding this further. Clearly there is a wrong way to parent, otherwise we would have no need for Child Protective Services in this country. So if there is a clearly wrong way to parent, wouldn't it make sense that there is a clearly right way to parent? Perhaps that how each one achieves this varies from home to home but there have to be some absolute elements in common in homes where children are thriving regardless if the home is a AP nonAP home>

Leanna · Aug 6, 2008

MsDahl said:
Perhaps that how each one achieves this varies from home to home but there have to be some absolute elements in common in homes where children are thriving regardless if the home is a AP nonAP home>

This was recently on a thread at GCM posted by the author. I thought it was a good list.

from the site http://goybparenting.com/which I haven't read, but want to give credit to...

Over the years, I’ve observed that good parenting has common elements.

Good parenting has these common elements:

1) Good parents establish a positive relationship
2) Good parents do not damage the relationship when disciplining
3) Good parents punish infrequently, yet discipline often
4) Good parents are knowledgeable about expected behavior and challenges relative to the ages and stages of their children
5) Good parents don’t have an agenda to avoid “outside” and community resources. Instead, they are willing to seek the support, information, assistance and accountability if needed
6) Good parents cultivate a family tone of lightheartedness, connection, playfulness and connection.
7) Good parents have “done their work” in terms of getting their own act together as soon as they realize their act was apart.

heart of peace · Aug 6, 2008

Good list, thanks for sharing.

gracepaints · Aug 6, 2008

MsDahl said:
Speaking of statistics and cosleeping, I am reminded of Leanna's post a ways back about those who did not intend to cosleep who ended up cosleeping because they felt they had no other options and the resulting effects on the child's sleep long term. It was a good thread, Leanna and it really brought to light that cosleeping/not cosleeping should be a decision embarked on from the beginning and it is in the best interest of the child to not deviate from it. (I didn't post the study so technically I am still in the confines of the OP's thread requirements...lol)

Huzzawhatnow?

heart of peace · Aug 6, 2008

Sorry, gracepaints, I don't know that internet lingo. Did you want the link to the study Leanna posted in a past thread?

Leanna · Aug 6, 2008

I wasn't sure exactly what thread we were referring to, either, but I do recognize the subject.... yeah post that puppy here, I hope I didn't say anything I've changed my mind on

gracepaints · Aug 7, 2008

MsDahl said:
Sorry, gracepaints, I don't know that internet lingo. Did you want the link to the study Leanna posted in a past thread?

I made it up. I just want more explanation of what you were talking about. A link is fine.

But to some up - parents should decide beforehand if they will co-sleep or not and then not waiver on that point because it's bad for the kid's sleep habits? Or something to that effect?

heart of peace · Aug 7, 2008

gracepaints said:
But to some up - parents should decide beforehand if they will co-sleep or not and then not waiver on that point because it's bad for the kid's sleep habits? Or something to that effect?

That study caused me to do quite a bit of thought and research to respond with an educated response! LOL I did all that only because I have a personal vested interest in the topic (cosleeping).

Post #13 is where I go into my 'findings' from the primary source that the article was based. Specifically, I noted that "Much of the results of the study are reflective of those parents who utilized cosleeping in order to deal with early sleeping problems. Therefore, it is not applicable to those who have coslept from the beginning. Hence, the choice to cosleep was not a reactive one, instead it was part of a grander parenting theme."

If you have time it was an interesting study to explore further.

Leanna said:
I wasn't sure exactly what thread we were referring to, either, but I do recognize the subject.... yeah post that puppy here, I hope I didn't say anything I've changed my mind on

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7125580

Leanna, I always find your threads insightful and some are downright unforgettable!

seige · Aug 7, 2008

MsDahl said:
Clearly there is a wrong way to parent, otherwise we would have no need for Child Protective Services in this country. So if there is a clearly wrong way to parent, wouldn't it make sense that there is a clearly right way to parent?

Being a teacher for the last five years and working with youth groups and children's groups for over 12 I'd have to say that I've had an inordinate amount of interaction with CPS... I've probably made somewhere close to 12 reports and been a "witness" (A male student comes in who has bruising and his teacher is filing the report but is a female so wants me to talk to him/ check the extent of the bruising (always with another male!)) in countless other ones (I'm the only guy at my school.... in fact... I've always been the only guy....

CPS has been, for me, EXTREMELY slow to act. I think that comes from 1.) difficulty proving neglect, and also the fact that "bad parenting" is subjective. All of us muck up once and a while (I know I already have and I don't even have a kid yet!) while parenting when do those little mistakes add up to "bad parenting?"

Here's the gospel according to CJ--

"If you care, you are a good parent."

That's it. Bad parents don't care about their child- they place themselves first (always) and neglect their child, they do what's easiest for them, not what's best for the child (Don't go there AP folks...."this is harder = this is better"). If you care about your child, research what you feel will work for them and do your best to try and do your best for them, you are doing this all because you love your child and that equals a good parent.

You'll note that it doesn't mean you have to breastfeed, be duct-taped to your child at all times, or use cloth diapers- nor does it mean you can't stick your child in a quality daycare, use disposables (at least use the biodegradable ones though!), or spank your kid occasionally. You can be a good parent and choose a different means by which to be that good parent.

I view it like being a good provider. Being a good provider means bringing home the moola. There are a million different ways to do that; I could be a police officer, a teacher, a rocket scientist, drug dealer, whatever... so long as I bring home the moola I am a good provider... well maybe the drug dealer isn't a good option b/c the chances of me losing my job and ending up someplace where I won't be able to continue to be a good provider...

(I was totally kidding about the drug dealer thing... )

jgonz · Aug 7, 2008

well maybe the drug dealer isn't a good option b/c the chances of me losing my job and ending up someplace where I won't be able to continue to be a good provider...

You crack me up seige.

Why is there no middle ground in parenting?

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