Why is the Christian faith so against sex outside marriage?

[Dave RP]

I am dating a Christian, we are both divorced and in our 50's. Some people in her Church have made comments about being in a relationship outside of marriage, in fact the Vicar gave a long sermon about sex outside marriage and same sex relationships the other week.

I am at a loss to understand why the Church is so concerned about individuals personal behaviour, two people very fond of each other and committed to each other expressing that in a way that the god they believe in designed, what can be wrong.

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The 10 commandments make no mention of sex outside of marriage.

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[sdowney717]

"As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."

If you love God that way, you will also love God's word in scripture which prohibits sexual immorality. Which includes sex outside of marriage.


1 Corinthians 6:13
Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 10:8
Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Revelation 2:21
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.

Revelation 9:21
And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

 

[A_Thinker]

I am dating a Christian, we are both divorced and in our 50's. Some people in her Church have made comments about being in a relationship outside of marriage, in fact the Vicar gave a long sermon about sex outside marriage and same sex relationships the other week.

I am at a loss to understand why the Church is so concerned about individuals personal behaviour, two people very fond of each other and committed to each other expressing that in a way that the god they believe in designed, what can be wrong.

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The 10 commandments make no mention of sex outside of marriage.

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks in anticipation.

The inevitable consequences of sex outside of marriage are more babies born outside of the stability of marriage, as well as increased sexually transmitted disease, as well as the risk of psychological issues around attachment (through intimacy) and detachment (breakup).

The typical waiting and peparation for marriage should give a couple the time to develop the spiritual intimacy to adequately support a physical relationship.

Of course, pregnancy risks are quite diminished in one's fifties, but, as christians, we are to take the lead and set the example for the younger generations.

 

[Dave-W]

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

You need an accurate definition of "love" for them to make sense.

Here is UMJC Rabbi Dan Juster's:

Love is passionate identification with the other person, perceiving their worth and seeking their good, guided by the law of God.​

He goes on to say:

However, the good of people has to be defined as guided by law. Nothing that goes against God's foundational moral law is ever good for people in the long run.​

That includes extramarital sex.
https://www.tikkunministries.org/newsletters/dj-jun16.php

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I am dating a Christian, we are both divorced and in our 50's. Some people in her Church have made comments about being in a relationship outside of marriage, in fact the Vicar gave a long sermon about sex outside marriage and same sex relationships the other week.

I am at a loss to understand why the Church is so concerned about individuals personal behaviour, two people very fond of each other and committed to each other expressing that in a way that the god they believe in designed, what can be wrong.

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The 10 commandments make no mention of sex outside of marriage.

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks in anticipation.

Basically, the idea is that God is not only Creator of every human being, thus having "designed" the human body and mind for social interaction, He is also the Sovereign Lord of His Creation and has put something of Himself into each of us, something which He claims and wants back at the end. Moreover, if we claim to be Christians, then we try to be mindful about honoring God's ownership of us as well as about His view that the purposes and relationships for which He intended us are Sacred. We are not our own.

In fact, I'd say the idea running rampant today that each person is an "utter individual," free to make his or her own social choices, is a myth of axioms created by and foisted upon the world by false Enlightenment thinking. Unfortunately, just about everyone has imbibed varieties of this thinking to some degree.

What we each need to come to realize is that God sees us as interconnected people, and we are specifically placed into His world to live our lives in an ethical way, reflecting our awareness of Him and His purposes; this means we live with the intent to have a full awareness of each other as human beings who are each made in His Image and for whom we need to care. Instead, we often claim our so-called "social rights" as excuses to ignore God's Will and often ignore the sacredness of relationships we have with other people, and we often do this nowadays by eschewing the very definition of family, of both spouse and our children.

So, with all of this in mind, is it any wonder then that God is seeking for people to relate with each other within the intentions that He has set for us?

 

[Hidden In Him]

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

You sound like you're thinking, which is good.

But let me show you how sexuality applies to the greatest commandment. He created sex as a reflection of a higher spiritual reality; the marriage of Christ to the church, His spiritual bride. It is a reflection of Christ being "in us" and us in Him, and the two being one. Thus, it is a sacred thing, and why the church often uses the phrase "holy matrimony."

As for why there needs to be a ceremony, just as the marriage between Christ and His bride will be commemorated publicly (such as at the wedding supper of the Lamb), so too does God expect that believers commemorate marriages in the same way. It is a public declaration of a covenant having been made between both parties; one which God intends should never be broken, just as He never intends for the marriage between Christ and His bride to ever be broken either.

Does this clear things up any, or no?

 

[razzelflabben]

I am dating a Christian, we are both divorced and in our 50's. Some people in her Church have made comments about being in a relationship outside of marriage, in fact the Vicar gave a long sermon about sex outside marriage and same sex relationships the other week.

I am at a loss to understand why the Church is so concerned about individuals personal behaviour, two people very fond of each other and committed to each other expressing that in a way that the god they believe in designed, what can be wrong.

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The 10 commandments make no mention of sex outside of marriage.

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks in anticipation.

It all goes back to Ephesians 5 marriage in general and in response to your question sex specifically goes back to a symbolic understanding of our relationship to God. It is a picture to the world of who we are to God and who God is to us. Specifically the waiting for marriage...we are waiting for the marriage of the church to the Lamb of God just as a couple is to wait for marriage to have sex. As I said, it's symbolic but an important symbolism. In addition to the symbolism it is an act of self control that is talked about way to little in the church today and is a fruit of the spirit Galatians 5. Exercising self control is an act of worship and demonstrates the power of God in our lives as we grow and mature and become more like Him.

 

[Petros2015]

Typically, it tends to generate children which can lead to a desperate state for both the woman and the child. In our modern day world which has birth control, it can lead to 'sex-shopping'. "I don't like this partner, so I'm going to trade up or find another that meets my needs" instead of commitment and growth together. When we are young, it is a process that can create life, and so it should be used respectfully, within a lifetime commitment, because it can create a new person who will be here for a lifetime.

In the older age of 50's this is less of a problem for you. A lot of people (myself included) have serious struggles with lust though, of wanting a relationship just to satisfy the sexual need without the desire (or the capacity) for loving and bonding at the deeper level. There is a tendency to confuse sex with love. For myself "I love you" often meant "thank you for having sex with me" or "let's have sex". So engaging in sex before a commitment kind of becomes a blocker to having a real commitment or being able to make one and know the person. Love and sex are two different things, one can be an expression of the other but they should never be confused. And pure lust from pornography has nothing to do with love, it is selfishness taken to the point of evil. It kills love.

So I think that all of these things are for our protection and the protection of others. Sex makes itself a 'God' very easily, in this day and age we tend to 'lust with impunity'. The commandments against immorality and pre-marital fornication are there to keep it in it's place, avoid emotional pain, unwanted children, adultery, diseases and ultimately idolatry - putting the sex drive ahead of God and love and the well being of the person you are having sex with.

Tough stuff and a real, nearly impossible struggle for any human. However, I have seen all the harm it caused in my own life and lives of people I 'loved' who were close to me when I have not followed it and let sex instead of God take the driver seat. So, it makes sense for me. Will I be able to follow it as life goes forward? I don't know. I take things a day at a time. But I expect that harm will follow, as it always has, if I don't. So I don't see a real choice to go on the way I had before. I don't think that is God's punishment and judgement, I think that's just the natural outcome. I lived for some 15 years with a woman who was a lover and never wanted to be married and our relationship limped along and finally died a bad death since neither of us wanted to commit to each other, but neither could leave. Sex kept it going. I did us both a horrible disservice by that - and she was the woman I left my wife for when I was young. So I know a little whereof I speak (for myself).

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am dating a Christian, we are both divorced and in our 50's. Some people in her Church have made comments about being in a relationship outside of marriage, in fact the Vicar gave a long sermon about sex outside marriage and same sex relationships the other week.

I am at a loss to understand why the Church is so concerned about individuals personal behaviour, two people very fond of each other and committed to each other expressing that in a way that the god they believe in designed, what can be wrong.

As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The 10 commandments make no mention of sex outside of marriage.

Surely these two major statements of the requirements of the Christian faith take precedence over interpretations which would prevent two people (such as us) from continuing a relationship?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thanks in anticipation.

The solution to your problem is to marry, if you and she are free to do so. Make that permanent commitment which is the essence of marriage. The Christian idea of marriage is that it is a great good, and the only proper place for sexual activity. Outside of that idea are single parent homes, children without both a father and a mother, lots and lots of pain, high probability of sexually transmitted disease, and the failure to develop deep and abiding love.

 

[Dave RP]

"As I understand it Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."

If you love God that way, you will also love God's word in scripture which prohibits sexual immorality. Which includes sex outside of marriage.


1 Corinthians 6:13
Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 10:8
Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Revelation 2:21
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.

Revelation 9:21
And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Ah yes but these words were written by Paul, after Jesus had died and (I know they are considered scripture) but they may just be his opinion?

 

[Dave RP]

You sound like you're thinking, which is good.

But let me show you how sexuality applies to the greatest commandment. He created sex as a reflection of a higher spiritual reality; the marriage of Christ to the church, His spiritual bride. It is a reflection of Christ being "in us" and us in Him, and the two being one. Thus, it is a sacred thing, and why the church often uses the phrase "holy matrimony."

As for why there needs to be a ceremony, just as the marriage between Christ and His bride will be commemorated publicly (such as at the wedding supper of the Lamb), so too does God expect that believers commemorate marriages in the same way. It is a public declaration of a covenant having been made between both parties; one which God intends should never be broken, just as He never intends for the marriage between Christ and His bride to ever be broken either.

Does this clear things up any, or no?

Not really, we are both divorced so cannot marry in Church, are we to remain celibate by Christian teachings?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ah yes but these words were written by Paul, after Jesus had died and (I know they are considered scripture) but they may just be his opinion?

If these words are merely just the sheer opinion of Paul through and through, then that would pretty much wreck the whole notion of "apostleship" among the early disciples of Jesus. Because, with your line of thinking, none of them was "actually" authorized by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit to go forth and spread the Gospel which Jesus spoke. Yeah....I think your insinuation here ignores some of the conceptual coherency that is built into the overall Christian social and spiritual framework.

 

[Dave RP]

The solution to your problem is to marry, if you and she are free to do so. Make that permanent commitment which is the essence of marriage. The Christian idea of marriage is that it is a great good, and the only proper place for sexual activity. Outside of that idea are single parent homes, children without both a father and a mother, lots and lots of pain, high probability of sexually transmitted disease, and the failure to develop deep and abiding love.

Well to be fair it's not "my" problem as I am quite happy, and as divorcees the church would not marry us anyway (see another reply I have done).

 

[Jon Osterman]

There is the added confusion that the modern (but still traditional) interpretation of "husband", "wife" and "marriage" are considerably different from the biblical meanings to which they are normally ascribed. For example, I am sure most modern Christian men would not take the wife of their older brother if he died before producing an heir. Indeed, most modern marriages (in the west) are not arranged by the parents when the couple are still children. And I hope that most modern husbands don't take their wife's virginity in a tent at the wedding feast with everyone standing expectantly outside!

Don't get me wrong, I was a virgin when I got married and have never strayed. But I think my marriage is more a reflection of Victorian values than biblical ones.

 

[Dave RP]

If these words are merely just the sheer opinion of Paul through and through, then that would pretty much wreck the whole notion of "apostleship" among the early disciples of Jesus. Because, with your line of thinking, none of them was "actually" authorized by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit to go forth and spread the Gospel which Jesus spoke. Yeah....I think your insinuation here ignores some of the conceptual coherency that is built into the overall Christian social and spiritual framework.

Not really, didn't the others actually meet Jesus and hear him? Paul did not meet him or actually hear him?

 

[sdowney717]

Ah yes but these words were written by Paul, after Jesus had died and (I know they are considered scripture) but they may just be his opinion?

Jesus said divorce then remarriage, they commit adultery. In truth you can divorce over sexual immorality from the other partner, but remarriage means you then commit adultery. Which is why the disciples then say better to never marry at all. This may seem harsh but if the divorced partner is alive, even Paul says both must remain single. Which is the traditional teaching of the church. But many ignore this.


Matthew 19 New King James Version (NKJV)
Marriage and Divorce
19 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.

3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

1 Cor 7, Paul teaches that married people are to remain together as married or if they seperate let them remain as unmarried, meaning no future different husband. And a husband is not to divorce the wife at all.

10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

v39, a wife is bound to the husband by the first marriage as long as her husband lives, because as Jesus said if they divorce and marry another they commit a sin of adultery.

39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment—and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

 

[RaymondG]

The Doctrine of no sex outside of marriage has been passed down for many centuries. It has been ingrained in the church and it is unlikely to be undone.....The doctrine of the religious has a powerful hold.....So strong that even Jesus Christ couldnt change their minds.......Ask the pharisee.
They arent bad people......it was just too hard to listen to anything that sound different from what has been passed down for centuries.

This is why they care and why they hold strong to their beliefs. I admire the ability to stand for something and not waiver. We just have to make sure that when the spirit of truth comes....our strong stances doesn't drive it away because it sounds strange.

 

[truefiction1]

Not really, we are both divorced so cannot marry in Church, are we to remain celibate by Christian teachings?

Whether or not you can marry in Church, being divorced, depends on being a member of the right Church.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well to be fair it's not "my" problem as I am quite happy, and as divorcees the church would not marry us anyway (see another reply I have done).

So, to be fair, she already has responsibilities to a husband which for some reason are not being fulfilled and you already have responsibilities to a wife which for some reason are not being fulfilled. You both already promised your faithful permanence to others. What is a promise worth? If you promised to be faithful to another woman, can you make the same promise again after not keeping the promise before? Can your girlfriend promise to be faithful to you after not keeping that promise to another?

 

[RaymondG]

The inevitable consequences of sex outside of marriage are more babies born outside of the stability of marriage, as well as increased sexually transmitted disease, as well as the risk of psychological issues around attachment (through intimacy) and detachment (breakup).

The typical waiting and peparation for marriage should give a couple the time to develop the spiritual intimacy to adequately support a physical relationship.

Of course, pregnancy risks are quite diminished in one's fifties, but, as christians, we are to take the lead and set the example for the younger generations.

I believe the biggest reasons for the downfalls you mention is the fact that sex before marriage is frowned upon... It is werent, there would be more education about it and no shame to obtain protection from diseases and unwanted pregnancies.

The church forced everyone to do things in secret.....push everything behind closed doors. This is way diseases abound and are spread... If you are related to a religious person....you cant go to them for advise....you cant share what you have done and get help....because you will be condemned and ridiculed.