Why is satan the bad guy?

rockytopva · Sep 2, 2014

rockytopva said:
If someone came and whizzed on your carpet and then proceeded to make a dump right there in front of everybody I bet you would get angry real quick.

The reason why is because it is your home and your carpet. You have rules to go by. That is the same with God. He has rules set for this his planet and is angry when those rules are not followed. If mankind would follow the rules of the bible it would be a better world.

Even in the old testament God had rules like for the people to avoid eating pork. If you ever fried up bacon you will see it is loaded with artery clogging grease. It would do well to stay away from those foods.

As far as satan.... He sought to exalt himself above God the Father himself and was cast down...

As three is the number of perfect harmony we have three groups of Angels...

1. Michael - Strong Angels
2. Gabriel - Wise Angels
3. Lucifer - Worshiping Angels

This continued through the eternities until Lucifer's heart began to wax cold with pride...

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nation!For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." - Isaiah 14:12

"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." - Rev 12:3-5

It is my reckonings that Satan was cast out into the void of space...

If… E=mc2 then we can divide and conclude that

Matter (m) = E (energy) / c2 (light)

And there are three varieties…

Mass – Is basically stored energy and light.
Mentality – Our thinking can produce an energy and a light!
Spiritually – E (energy, motivation, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

If E = mc2 we can assume the inverse, and conclude….

n (nothing) = z (absolute zero) / d (darkness)

And to measure the effects on the spiritual level…

n (nothing) – emptyness with no motivation
z (absolute zero) – cold (don’t be a brother polar bear!)
d (darkness) – the opposite of faith, hope, charity, and joy would be… fear, depression, hate, and sorrow!

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. - 2 Cor 11:14

It is in my imagination, as satan fell, that he was stripped of the true light and energies. As he was an angel of light he attempts to bring light unto planet earth... But because he is not of the true E/c2... There is no warmth about him.

The demonic spirits dwelt in this darkness perhaps millions of years, until the Lord God uttered these words...

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

This was the big boom.... With God's light and energy the universe was created and the universe has been expanding out ever since. It is my estimation that 15 billions years expired before the utterance of these words...

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:5

So... In my estimation Satan has been kicked out of heaven for the period of between 14-16 billion years. It has been so long since he has experienced the true light and energies that he despises it.

Mankind has been created to fill the void left in satans wake. As Lucifer the old dragon does not want us up there playing with his old toys he wars with us over the heavenly stake.

There is a path to Chrisma, or the heavenly anointing. Lucifer had this until ego entered his heart. And... Mankind needs to know this, ego is not anointing of the Spirit but is denomic in its origins.

Satan reveals himself here on planet earth

The Rolling Stones - Sympathy For The Devil -HQ - YouTube

Sympathy for the Devil - The Rolling Stones...

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long years
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made d*** sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
(woo woo, woo woo)

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me
(who who, who who)

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
(woo woo, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
(who who, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
(woo woo, who who)

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
(who who, who who)

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
(woo woo)
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
(woo woo, woo woo)

MehGuy · Sep 2, 2014

Satan tried to start a rebellion to over throw an all powerful deity.

Which surprisingly did not work out in his favor.

Blessedj01 · Sep 2, 2014

MehGuy said:
Satan tried to start a rebellion to over throw an all powerful deity. Which surprisingly did not work out in his favor.

So he started taking shots at humans.

Aldebaran · Sep 2, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
So he started taking shots at humans.

Right! Revelation 12:17:

"So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

If an evil one can't defeat the one he hates, he hurts the one he hates by attacking the hated one's loved ones.

Blessedj01 · Sep 2, 2014

Aldebaran said:
Right! Revelation 12:17: "So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus." If an evil one can't defeat the one he hates, he hurts the one he hates by attacking the hated one's loved ones.

Yep. The ultimate lowlife bad guy. I think there is some major theological confusion out there Satan wasn't all that bad, or a Hollywood misconception that he wasn't really responsible.

poolerboy0077 · Sep 2, 2014

Robban said:
I don,t see how you have come to that conclusion.

I see a forum as a Place where people gather and share,

it can be enjoyable at times even.

Un fortunately there are those who come with nothing to share,
they just demand, demand, demand, mostly athiests, whatever that is.

So, I brought something to share,

Take it or leave it.

I will see myself to the door.

What on Earth...

Smidlee · Sep 2, 2014

MehGuy said:
Satan tried to start a rebellion to over throw an all powerful deity.

Which surprisingly did not work out in his favor.

Exactly like a cancer cell will eventually leads to it's own destruction.

Robban · Sep 2, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
What on Earth...

Nothing personal pooler, garanteed, nor dogma hunter or anyone for that matter, what is an athiest, I have no idea, Ive,s never met one, not what I know of.
The whole of my working Life I have not given it a thought,
It,s not the done thing to talk freely to just anyone about that kind of stuff.

But what is real though is anti-semitism within Christinity,

Many see the satan as a figure, not a force, to which if one opens oneself that person will be more under the Control of this negative force.

Martin Luther, the Church fathers all have been an influence, in this, and it does not go away.

I will say no more for obvious reasons.

Keep well pooler.

Blessedj01 · Sep 2, 2014

Smidlee said:
Exactly like a cancer cell will eventually leads to it's own destruction.

Not a bad analogy.

BobRyan · Sep 2, 2014

madaz said:
Is it unlawfull of Satan to murder when God commands Satan to murder?

God "Commands satan to murder" ??? really??

Who goes for that?

BobRyan · Sep 2, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Can I have the verse that says the talking snake was satan, please

Rev 12 the "serpent of old" was the devil

BobRyan · Sep 2, 2014

As noted - the devil has ruined the lives of his closest followers and of all humanity.

BobRyan said:
Satan caused the fall of 1/3 of the loyal angels. Rev 12. The loss of 1/3 of the Angel race.

Satan started war in heaven. Rev 12.

Satan caused the fall of Adam and Eve - the loss of the entire human race.

Satan filled the heart of Judas and drove the people to crucify Christ.

Satan is called "the god of this world" 2 Cor 4 -- and he himself claims "the world is his and he gives it to whom he wishes" Matt 4.

Satan leads Angels and humans to reject the source of life - and to come under condemnation as law breakers - as rebels against God.

Satan lead the humans of Noah's day to reject the Noah message and to kill each other filling the world with violence.

No Angel or human was ever "better off" for having followed one of Satan's lousy schemes.

Blessedj01 · Sep 2, 2014

BobRyan said:
As noted - the devil has ruined the lives of his closest followers and of all humanity.

Just to add to that, Satan isn't capable of being better off anymore. He is called the father of lies, can't speak without lying and arrogantly believes his own lies even when he knows that he is wrong. Eternally. That is one reason why he fights a losing battle against God.

DogmaHunter · Sep 3, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
Satan is the bad guy because he wants you dead, has planned to destroy you and ruin your future and wants to kill every single human there is and do the same to them.

Satan right now, is telling you to side with him (a created angel who refused to even do his job and decided to kill all of gods children) over the one who is good, who made all creation.

That makes him the bad guy.

That would be a compelling argument if you could support it.
Can you? You asserted that Satan wants humans dead. How do you know this? what is it based on?

GrowingSmaller · Sep 3, 2014

DogmaHunter said:
That would be a compelling argument if you could support it.
Can you? You asserted that Satan wants humans dead. How do you know this? what is it based on?

Thats the definitoin of satan. He is the personification of evil, and no harm no bad. How figurativey or literally you take that personification, if you go along at all, is up to you.

DogmaHunter · Sep 3, 2014

GrowingSmaller said:
Thats the definitoin of satan.

So, it's just arbitrary?

So if I define Osama Bin Laden to be "good", then "by definition" he is good?

See, this is exactly the problem. These theistic characters are simply defined to be a certain way and then it is assumed that the definitions are correct.

I don't find this to be compelling at all. The defenition needs to be based on something. If it isn't, it is totally arbitrary.

Basically, if the answer to the question "why is satan bad?" simply is "because he is defined to be bad", then the whole notion is rendered meaningless. It's not different then "because I say so". That's not a valid reason.

Try a real argument.

TheStraightener · Sep 3, 2014

And the whole argument is weakened further when you compare the misery, torture and death toll caused by each character.

TheStraightener · Sep 3, 2014

Also in any other situation the characters would be viewed quite differently.

Character A likes people to obey him and follow his rules... If they don't then they will face eternal torture.

Character A likes to order people to kill anyone who doesn't worship him, including their women and children.

Character A wipes out the entire planet.

Character A only likes to help people in developed countries and has no interest in helping ANYONE in the third world.

Character B doesn't want you to follow character A.

And Character B is the bad guy?

In any other movie, book or story then Character A would most definately be the bad guy and Character B would be the hero.

How is this different in the bible?

Nithavela · Sep 3, 2014

Ever been to sweden?

DogmaHunter · Sep 3, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Also in any other situation the characters would be viewed quite differently.

Character A likes people to obey him and follow his rules... If they don't then they will face eternal torture.

Character A likes to order people to kill anyone who doesn't worship him, including their women and children.

Character A wipes out the entire planet.

Character A only likes to help people in developed countries and has no interest in helping ANYONE in the third world.

Character B doesn't want you to follow character A.

And Character B is the bad guy?

In any other movie, book or story then Character A would most definately be the bad guy and Character B would be the hero.

How is this different in the bible?

Exactly.

This is why I compared it several times to North Korea.
If god is the dictator and satan is one of his army officers that starts a rebellion... then obviously satan is a hero. And if it was a losing battle from the start (which it is if the dictator is "all powerfull and immortal"), then not only is he a hero... he's a martyr of incredible courage, dignity and integrity.

I have repeatedly asked for an argument that demonstrates how this analogy is not appropriate. The only thing I've received were arbitrary definitions that define the dictator as "good". Which is exactly what the propaganda machine in North Korea would come up with as well.

My invitation for an argument demonstrating how god is good and satan bad remains open indefinatly.

However, I don't expect to receive one. Every attempt in this thread could have come right out of a propaganda campaign.

Obviously, it doesn't matter that much to me as I don't consider gods and devils to be real. But I can certainly evaluate a story and the characters therein.

Funnily enough, we can easily come up with valid arguments that explain how Obi Wan and Luke Skywalker are the good guys while Darth Vader is the bad guy.

We can also present valid argument that explain how He-man is the good guy and Skeletor the bad guy.

The same goes for:
- Spiderman and the green goblin
- Superman and Lex Luthor
- Batman and the Joker
- Zorro and the Spanjards
- Son Goku and Freeza
- The Autobots and The Decepticons
- ......

When asked, one never needs to revert to definitions to say who is the good guy and the bad guy. Nope. One can point to very specific things that they do and decide. Their actions, decisions and motives speak for themselves. No "definitions" required.

Why is satan the bad guy?

Love to pray! :)

A member of the less neotenous sex..

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