Why is satan a threat?

[SigmaChiBryan]

In full disclosure, I used to be Lutheran, but have considered myself agnostic since I was about 15. Something I was pondering recently is why satan exists? God created satan...so why doesn't he just destroy him? If God doesn't destroy him, isn't he basically enabling him and letting satan do whatever to those who do not believe in God correctly? Why would God give satan that much power? It seems like in every good story there needs to be a force of good and a force of evil...and to me it seems like that's the only reason satan is around...to balance out the Christian story. I am being sincere however, and I hope to hear some thoughtful answers. Thanks in advance, Bryan

 

[oi_antz]

In full disclosure, I used to be Lutheran, but have considered myself agnostic since I was about 15. Something I was pondering recently is why satan exists? God created satan...so why doesn't he just destroy him? If God doesn't destroy him, isn't he basically enabling him and letting satan do whatever to those who do not believe in God correctly? Why would God give satan that much power? It seems like in every good story there needs to be a force of good and a force of evil...and to me it seems like that's the only reason satan is around...to balance out the Christian story. I am being sincere however, and I hope to hear some thoughtful answers. Thanks in advance, Bryan

Hi Bryan, this is a topic I would like to see explored sincerely too. I'll give you a hand to get thinking about it by sharing the POV I have.

The new earth after the final judgment will not have a serpent, and everyone who is part of the resurrection into Christ will have endured and overcome the serpent, thus we will have experience under our belt that Adam and Eve didn't have. In my mind, those who are part of that resurrection will be 100% loyal to Jesus Christ (see Matthew 7:21). Therefore, there won't be anyone there who will disobey God again.

I think the whole process of life is meant for learning with the biggest lesson being to listen and obey what God says, not just because we are afraid of being punished for disobedience, but because we know that He alone is the absolute source of wisdom and anyone who disputes what He says is a liar. This is why Jesus describes Satan as a liar and a murderer (see John 8:44).

Another thing you have to keep in mind is that we can't blame Satan for everything that goes wrong in the world, because it is human sin that causes the problems, the humans are given a conscience to know what is good and what is bad, and the angels and demons use the conscience when they are manipulating us. It actually takes a conscious effort to dampen the conscience but once a human has trained themselves to ignore the conscience they are capable of even killing their brother. This is why the human was forbidden to eat of the tree of life and live forever. To put it simply, a sinful human is a hideous monster. A truly repentant human is worthy to be Jesus' disciple and to have eternal life because we only ever seek to please God.

Well I hope this gives you a good start, please do comment on what you find interesting or even to ask for scriptural support if you find it is lacking, it is paramount that we hold the Word of God as the absolute authority on these matters because people often get all kinds of wild theories and there is no guarantee they have originated from God, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

I don't think you'll get a sufficient answer to your questions. Yes, God can destroy Satan but chooses not too. God has a plan, and is working toward His plan. It doesn't make sense to us, but we aren't God and God doesn't consult man with regards to His plans.

 

[elman]

In full disclosure, I used to be Lutheran, but have considered myself agnostic since I was about 15. Something I was pondering recently is why satan exists? God created satan...so why doesn't he just destroy him? If God doesn't destroy him, isn't he basically enabling him and letting satan do whatever to those who do not believe in God correctly? Why would God give satan that much power? It seems like in every good story there needs to be a force of good and a force of evil...and to me it seems like that's the only reason satan is around...to balance out the Christian story. I am being sincere however, and I hope to hear some thoughtful answers. Thanks in advance, Bryan

I believe in God the Creator and Jesus. I do not believe in Satan. When I read the story of Job for example I see a story that is meant to teach you that suffering in this world is not an indication of God being displeased with you. I think that teaching is divine truth but the details of the story, I do not believe. When Jesus was tempted I suspect it was about being tempted in the same way we are all tempted--from within not from some entity outside of us. Usually I think when someone in the Bible had a demon it was a reference to mental illness. I believe that if we win the war inside us with our own demons--temptations, we then are connected to God and nothing except outselves, in heaven or on earth, can separate us from God and His love including Satan if he existes. So in any event Satan is irrelevent. If I have victory in Jesus I need not fear anything out there, including any immaginary Satan.

 

[elman]

Hi Bryan, this is a topic I would like to see explored sincerely too. I'll give you a hand to get thinking about it by sharing the POV I have.

The new earth after the final judgment will not have a serpent, and everyone who is part of the resurrection into Christ will have endured and overcome the serpent, thus we will have experience under our belt that Adam and Eve didn't have. In my mind, those who are part of that resurrection will be 100% loyal to Jesus Christ (see Matthew 7:21). Therefore, there won't be anyone there who will disobey God again.

I think the whole process of life is meant for learning with the biggest lesson being to listen and obey what God says, not just because we are afraid of being punished for disobedience, but because we know that He alone is the absolute source of wisdom and anyone who disputes what He says is a liar. This is why Jesus describes Satan as a liar and a murderer (see John 8:44).

Another thing you have to keep in mind is that we can't blame Satan for everything that goes wrong in the world, because it is human sin that causes the problems, the humans are given a conscience to know what is good and what is bad, and the angels and demons use the conscience when they are manipulating us. It actually takes a conscious effort to dampen the conscience but once a human has trained themselves to ignore the conscience they are capable of even killing their brother. This is why the human was forbidden to eat of the tree of life and live forever. To put it simply, a sinful human is a hideous monster. A truly repentant human is worthy to be Jesus' disciple and to have eternal life because we only ever seek to please God.

Well I hope this gives you a good start, please do comment on what you find interesting or even to ask for scriptural support if you find it is lacking, it is paramount that we hold the Word of God as the absolute authority on these matters because people often get all kinds of wild theories and there is no guarantee they have originated from God, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I agree with this statement of yours: "Another thing you have to keep in mind is that we can't blame Satan for everything that goes wrong in the world, because it is human sin that causes the problems." Except I do not think bad weather is caused by human sin.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

I believe in God the Creator and Jesus. I do not believe in Satan. When I read the story of Job for example I see a story that is meant to teach you that suffering in this world is not an indication of God being displeased with you. I think that teaching is divine truth but the details of the story, I do not believe. When Jesus was tempted I suspect it was about being tempted in the same way we are all tempted--from within not from some entity outside of us. Usually I think when someone in the Bible had a demon it was a reference to mental illness. I believe that if we win the war inside us with our own demons--temptations, we then are connected to God and nothing except outselves, in heaven or on earth, can separate us from God and His love including Satan if he existes. So in any event Satan is irrelevent. If I have victory in Jesus I need not fear anything out there, including any immaginary Satan.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 comes to my mind when I read something like that here on CF.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 comes to my mind when I read something like that here on CF.

Amen.

 

[elman]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 comes to my mind when I read something like that here on CF.

If you think believing in Satan is the only way to have sound doctrine--go for it. I don't believe that of course. I think sound doctrine is believing in a loving God and Jesus. You probably would also equate a question of inerrancy of the Bible with sound doctrine. I think you would be wrong in that also.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Because freedom is a reality. The angels and man are like God in that they have freedom. God isn't going to save the world through coercion and necessity but only through love and education. Coercion itself is evil and God will not use evil means.

 

[LBP]

The Jews view Satan as God's agent rather than as God's adversary. While we cannot pretend to fully understand God's plan since we are created beings who lack His wisdom and perspective, the Jewish view does make sense to me. The quotation below is from a Jewish site. Where I differ is that I don't believe we do have the ability to "pass the test" as this quotation suggests. I do believe that Satan is given free reign so that we can mature as moral beings and appreciate the goodness of God, more or less as this quotation suggests, but also so we can see how far short of "passing the test" we fall by God's standards; hence the need for Christ. It seems to me that if one takes the view of Satan as being God's adversary who is in some cosmic struggle with Him, one is driven to the sort of questions you are asking and the unsatisfactory (to me) answer that "It's all just a mystery we can't comprehend" (or some goofy "Left Behind" theology that strikes me as almost comical in its shallowness). The Jewish view of Satan as God's agent makes more sense to me, even though I'm sure the Bible-thumpers will scream that I'm the living embodiment of 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

The Hebrew word "Satan" means "Hinderer." To hinder someone means to hold him back, to try to prevent him from doing something. G-d created the Hinderer to give us work to do in this world. Satan is here to make things difficult for us, so we can overcome our evil temptations, and PASS the test. That is the purpose of Satan. Satan is an angel whose purpose has been determined by G-d.

Temptation is there to try and deter us. It gives us the ability to do the wrong thing. More importantly, it gives us the ability to look at evil and refuse to do it. By presenting us with the opportunity to do evil, it gives us the ability to choose between good and evil.

The ability to choose between good and evil is what gives us free will.

So, in order for us to work for the good that Hashem wants to give us, the good of the World to Come, we need something to deter us. That is the ability to do evil. Satan is our Evil Inclination (Yetzer Hara). The Evil Inclination tries to prevent us from doing good, because Hashem has commanded the Evil Inclination to do that.
Why? To give us free will.

Each of us every day fights with Satan. We all have temptations, throughout the day. But we, as the Children of Israel, have the power to overcome even angels, if we work at it. Therefore, the Talmud says that men are greater than angels, for we can fight with an angel (Satan) and win.

 

[elman]

Because freedom is a reality. The angels and man are like God in that they have freedom. God isn't going to save the world through coercion and necessity but only through love and education. Coercion itself is evil and God will not use evil means.

 

[LBP]

Because freedom is a reality. The angels and man are like God in that they have freedom. God isn't going to save the world through coercion and necessity but only through love and education. Coercion itself is evil and God will not use evil means.

The difficulty with this is that it really doesn't address the OP's concern as to why God would allow a supernaturally evil being like Satan to have free reign in the sphere of man - i.e., to instigate the Fall and continue to wreak havoc. Man could have had real freedom without having to contend with supernaturally evil forces. It makes more sense to me that Satan is actually God's agent in His plan for man, as the Jews believe.

 

[bling]

Yes! God can destroy satan at any time.

Satan roaming the earth has a purpose similar to: all tragedies have a purpose, Christ going to the cross had a purpose, sin has a purpose, our time here on earth has a purpose and hell has a purpose.

Man has an “objective” something to be “accomplished” while on earth. Out of God’s great Love man was created to have this opportunity to fulfill his objective.

God’s objective as it relates to man is to do all He can to help those that are just willing to accept God’s help fulfill their objective. This “all” comes at great cost and sacrifice by God to allow and/or cause certain situations and happenings to take place.

God does not like satan, but use satan to roam the earth to create the best opportunities for willing humans to fulfill their objective. Once the earth is destroyed there will be no more earthly human objectives and no more need for satan.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

There certainly are some interesting viewpoints on who Satan is (and isn't) in this thread. Denying that Satan even exists is a bit off the beaten Christian track, IMO. But I guess the next step after denying the existence of hell would be to deny the existence of the devil, thus denying the truth of the Scriptures.

 

[Drax]

In full disclosure, I used to be Lutheran, but have considered myself agnostic since I was about 15. Something I was pondering recently is why satan exists? God created satan...so why doesn't he just destroy him? If God doesn't destroy him, isn't he basically enabling him and letting satan do whatever to those who do not believe in God correctly? Why would God give satan that much power? It seems like in every good story there needs to be a force of good and a force of evil...and to me it seems like that's the only reason satan is around...to balance out the Christian story. I am being sincere however, and I hope to hear some thoughtful answers. Thanks in advance, Bryan

I'll offer a couple thoughts here. It would be a mistake to see a dualism of good vs. evil in Christianity, because that gives evil far more credit and power than it deserves. God has no equal, no rival. Evil is really an absence of holiness. God does allow for angels and humans to have a will. We're not machines or puppets. Everything he grants to us is gracious. So, in the case of Lucifer, God's grace created him and allows him to act. It's not enabling him or empowering him; it's allowing, for a set time, for Satan to act as he will. It does mysteriously fit into the plan of God's continuing triumph over death and sin.

 

[elman]

There certainly are some interesting viewpoints on who Satan is (and isn't) in this thread. Denying that Satan even exists is a bit off the beaten Christian track, IMO. But I guess the next step after denying the existence of hell would be to deny the existence of the devil, thus denying the truth of the Scriptures.

I do deny the Bible is the word of God without error. Even the Bible says Jesus is the word of God. I do deny God ever ordered anyone killed or killed them Himself. I also deny God is evil. God is good all the time and can be trusted which is why God deserves our adoration. I do deny God tortures anyone ever, in this life or the next. Why is Satan a threat if no power in heaven or on earth can separate us from the love of God? Why is Satan a threat when the death of my soul is for one reason only, my own sin--not the power of Satan-see Ezekiel 18. Was it a spiritual being or Peter that Christ said get behind me Satan?

 

[Tim Myers]

I think the devil is a scapegoat and a handy excuse that human beings used to deflect the responsibility off themselves.
The main thing is, evil has no more power or influence over people than what people themselves allow it to have.....

 

[elman]

I think the devil is a scapegoat and a handy excuse that human beings used to deflect the responsibility off themselves.
The main thing is, evil has no more power or influence over people than what people themselves allow it to have.....

 

[razeontherock]

Something I was pondering recently is why satan exists? God created satan...so why doesn't he just destroy him?

Let me first draw attention to this surprisingly good comment, from Drax:

"So, in the case of Lucifer, God's grace created him and allows him to act. It's not enabling him or empowering him; it's allowing, for a set time, for Satan to act as he will. It does mysteriously fit into the plan of God's continuing triumph over death and sin."

Nowhere does the Bible say that G-d works in mysterious ways, but it does tell us we can know both Him and His ways!

I take issue w/ the opening statement, that G-d "created satan." I don't think he did, anymore than than He created fallen man.

G-d created Adam and Eve, and since then we are born with the image and likeness of our parents, NOT G-d. (We read that right in Genesis, but so many still want to sweep that under the rug)

Likewise, G-d created Lucifer, and he was good. satan is to Lucifer like we are to Adam and Eve before the fall.


The main difference? There is no plan of Salvation for angels, but there is for us I really do think all these things are so inter-connected, that you can't understand any one of them w/o a growing understanding of the whole thing. And within that, you can see the purpose of allowing things to continue as they are, including evil. Disclaimer: I have never seen this so clearly that I have comprehended (Rev 20:3) "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

What I DO comprehend, is that this is why hell is a GOOD thing. Anyone who has ever battled a demon knows that permanent separation from such is infinite mercy and goodness. In the meantime, earth is the place for humility, not glory. And this is how Jesus defeated satan.

 

[razeontherock]

Why is Satan a threat if no power in heaven or on earth can separate us from the love of God? Why is Satan a threat when the death of my soul is for one reason only, my own sin--not the power of Satan?

Let the redeemed of the Lord say so! (Psalm 107:2)