Why is Rob Bell considered a heretic?

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 2, 2008

Johnnz said:
So was I when I reread it! I have made a correction. Hopefully the murk has cleared. These days a potential heresy is only a typo away!

John
NZ

Aye, much clearer. Now I can remove the from my agreement.

hiumble1 · Jun 19, 2008

Johnnz said:
There is a large group of Christians (Fundamentalists) who have the only true version of Christianity. Anything that is not consistent with their beliefs is therefore wrong.

Jesus had a few problems with such people in His day. Eventually they killed Him because He did not agree with their agenda.

There is a large number of committed Christians who expose the limitations of fundamentalism, who have not abandoned 'the faith', whose biblical scholarship, personal integrity and breadth of understanding is making Christianity and church a much better experience for many. Rob Bell is amongst those.

John
NZ

Know many fundamentalists?
I would say it is not about whether you are in line with my beliefs but Christ Jesus...
I thought Jesus Died for our sins?

Rob Bell views/understandings are heretical.
everything I have seen makes me cringe...
God is not angry? specifically at sin?
we should go to the Bible not to someone who says well they didn't what they were talking about back then.... NOW WE KNOW....

Why did you come to the cross?...

Johnnz · Jun 19, 2008

hiumble1 said:
Know many fundamentalists?
I would say it is not about whether you are in line with my beliefs but Christ Jesus...
I thought Jesus Died for our sins?

Rob Bell views/understandings are heretical.
everything I have seen makes me cringe...
God is not angry? specifically at sin?
we should go to the Bible not to someone who says well they didn't what they were talking about back then.... NOW WE KNOW....

Why did you come to the cross?...

Sure Jesus died for our sins - Just to appease an angry God, or to restore us into the embrace of our Father who loves us?

Was the cross plan A or plan B - an end in itself or a way back to the original blueprint?

Paul would have grieved over some of modern fudamentalism. He wrote Romans and Galations to oppose similar views in his day which were founded on law keeping.

Rob Bell understands the vastness of the NT message. It is an exciting vision about God's kingdom coming to earth, beginning in the here and now.

Try Dallas Willard for an even more scholarly analysis of fundamentalism. Or even better go back to Anathanasias and see what the Christians believed in the first four centuries, long before 19th century fundamentalism appeared on the scene.

John
NZ

hiumble1 · Jun 20, 2008

and Jesus is grieving over what man has done and is doing with his sacrifice on the cross....
the thing is it is both.... payment and restoration
Let me ask you a question: What is Sin? (can always look to Romans for an explanation)
Rob Bell understands Rob Bell.... he is pushing a pill for sale.
The message is Simple... When Read the Bible ask one question, why... why did he come here and become low.... why did he die on the cross.... The God of all the universe....
No greater love has a man who lay down his own life for another.
Many view the cross as happenstance... the product of pushing authorities tooo far...
Read : Isa 53 and then look at the cross... It was written 300 year before Christ

Johnnz · Jun 20, 2008

Why did Jesus come? Look at Ephesians 1:4-9
In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. NIV

Long before this world was created, before mankind fell the Triune God purposed that humanity would be adopted into the divine family through Jesus. Had Adam never sinned He would still have become incarnate so that we can become part of God's family. That is what our adoption is all about.

That is in verse 5. In verse 7 Paul then mentions our redemption, necessary because of our sin.

Our relationship with God is based on His love. It was His love that drove Him to redeem us. Read on in Ephesians and see how often the word 'love' is used. In 3:17 Paul writes about being rooted and established in love. To 'be rooted and established' means our life with God begins and continues with love as its very foundation and source. Love forms the basis of our relationship with God, not fear of judgement. It's a fear based faith that is really heretical.

John
NZ

hiumble1 · Jun 23, 2008

Yes it is based on his love.... if you are in a right standing with him....
Christ Jesus Said do not fear him who can kill the Body and do no more, however fear him who can kill your body and send your soul to hell...
Fear keeps our feet to the path and love holds our eyes upon him... while fear drives us to the cross, love causes us to grab hold...

fear based faith? where did I say Fear based faith... Fear should cause you to come to the cross, love however keeps you there...

Johnnz · Jun 23, 2008

hiumble1 said:
Yes it is based on his love.... if you are in a right standing with him....
Christ Jesus Said do not fear him who can kill the Body and do no more, however fear him who can kill your body and send your soul to hell...
Fear keeps our feet to the path and love holds our eyes upon him... while fear drives us to the cross, love causes us to grab hold...

fear based faith? where did I say Fear based faith... Fear should cause you to come to the cross, love however keeps you there...

Our standing with God is based on a) His unchanging love that sent His Son to b) provide the way for us to come before God in the face of our inadequacies. Otherwise I must earn my salvation - works not grace. This is why Paul wrote about no condemnation in Romans 8. And why? Paul gave these four very good reasons.

Rom 8:1-3 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. This is the basis of 'no condemnation' not how well we get our act together. The reasons?

Rom 8:31-39
31 If God is for us, who can be against us?
God is on our side.

32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Having given the ultimate gift is God about to get stingy with us as family members, whereas once we were His enemies and yet still very much loved?

33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

To be justified means to be declared 'clean', totally forgiven due to Jesus' sacrifice. Nothing left now, we have His righteousness. And is Jesus who is praying for us also putting the boot in at the same time?

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NIV

That looks pretty unshakable and secure to me. We can't be separated from God's love, imperfect though we are.

John
NZ

hiumble1 · Jun 24, 2008

Unless you are saved... you are separate from God....
If you continue in sin (diving in....and not falling in) than no....
As long you as you have repented and put faith and trust in Jesus...
What you speak of is those whom are saved....
Whom I speak of is those who are not... if you have to change the gospel to reach the lost than you are not preaching the gospel....

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 24, 2008

hiumble1 said:
Unless you are saved... you are separate from God....
If you continue in sin (diving in....and not falling in) than no....
As long you as you have repented and put faith and trust in Jesus...
What you speak of is those whom are saved....
Whom I speak of is those who are not... if you have to change the gospel to reach the lost than you are not preaching the gospel....

Aye, but so far I have seen no indication that Bell changes the gospel, or has even said anything unorthodox. His style, his method of presentation is unusual, and he likes to use observations from daily life as starting points for expounding on the relationship between God and man, but I have not heard or read any heretical content from him.

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

here's an article I found stating that Rob Bell denies the authority of scriptures (excerpt from his book)

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/526/Ken_Silva

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

another scary piece written on Bell from his book, Sex God:

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2008/03/rob_bell_sex_go_1.html

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 25, 2008

Nadiine said:
here's an article I found stating that Rob Bell denies the authority of scriptures (excerpt from his book)

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/526/Ken_Silva

Here's the Bell quote from that piece (note that Silva gives no context for it):

This is part of the problem with continually insisting that one of the absolutes of the Christian faith must be a belief that Scripture alone is our guide. It sounds good, but its not true. [3]

If that quote is accurate, it does not amount to denying the authority of scripture. What it means is that Bell is denying that sola scriptura is an absolute of the Christian faith. And that's correct: while the Protestant tradition affirms sola scriptura, the Catholic and Orthodox traditions do not. And not all Protestant churches consider it an absolute. For example, the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition tempers it with the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, which is my own approach.

But Silva claims that quote shows "Bell denies outright the historic orthodox Christian view of the Bible." Not only does Silva fail to prove his case, he's made an extraordinarily sloppy and misleading statement, which disinclines me to trust his work at all. Either Silva's reading comprehension is poor, or he's so intent on grinding his axe that's he willing to deliberately mislead for his cause.

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 25, 2008

Nadiine said:
another scary piece written on Bell from his book, Sex God:

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2008/03/rob_bell_sex_go_1.html

Roberts appears to have at least read Sex God instead of just relying on misconstrued out-of-context quotes, and I cannot say his interpretation of it is wrong since I haven't yet read that one myself. What I can say is it doesn't match my understanding of the Rob Bell material I am familiar with.

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

=)
Well there's alot more than just that -

I'm finding all kinds of stuff on the net

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/rob_bell_yoga_m.html

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2008/03/rob_bell_and_ne_1.html

There's no doubt in my mind his ties to Eastern religion - my sister read his book and had said the same.

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

A quote I found on another Christian website:

Rob Bell is a New Age evangelist as he has so clearly shown on many occasions. For instance, and perhaps one of the most indicting statements from him, in his book Velvet Elvis he resonates with New Age Buddhist follower Ken Wilber.
Bell tells readers to spend three months studying Wilber and promises them it will be a "mind-blowing introduction to emergence theory and divine creativity" (p. 192).
Wilber's "emergence theory" incorporates everything from tantric sex (sexual experience mixed with mysticism), Yoga, Reiki, Zen, Kundalini Yoga, centering prayer, and magic.
1In fact, studying Wilber for three months (as Bell suggests) in a favorable light would easily turn the student into a Buddhist practitioner! And yet Bell's book is being used by Christian high schools and churches as a resource for spirituality. How incredible!

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=905&more=1&c=1

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 25, 2008

It doesn't bother me at all that Bell refers to breathing lessons drawn from Yoga, which isn't a religion, but a physical/mental discipline akin to a martial art.

Nor am I bothered that Bell has nice things to say about Marcus Borg, one of the best known liberal theologians. When I read him (sorry Marcus, I've been too busy), I expect I'll have some nice things to say about him too. But I'm sure I'll also disagree with him on many things.

I'm not familiar with Ken Wilber, but I'll check him out. I will say I've learned some useful things from both Zen and Taoism, though I've never been a practitioner of either.

hiumble1 · Jun 25, 2008

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genesis 3:1-6”Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.[/FONT]

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

Izdaari said:
It doesn't bother me at all that Bell refers to breathing lessons drawn from Yoga, which isn't a religion, but a physical/mental discipline akin to a martial art.

Nor am I bothered that Bell has nice things to say about Marcus Borg, one of the best known liberal theologians. When I read him (sorry Marcus, I've been too busy), I expect I'll have some nice things to say about him too. But I'm sure I'll also disagree with him on many things.

I'm not familiar with Ken Wilber, but I'll check him out. I will say I've learned some useful things from both Zen and Taoism, though I've never been a practitioner of either.

The OP is asking why Bell is viewed as a heretic and I provided reasons -- (and those are only a few that I found without much digging). What anybody wants to do with them is their affair.

As for me (and for my own family who has done deeper study into Emergent church leaders), I say RUN as fast as you can and stick to what we're given in our scriptures which are 100% sufficient for our growth!
Not running off into 'strange' false religions to mingle practices that God hasn't taught.

These are what I call "doorways" to lure people into further false teaching.
The words and teachings are curbed JUST ENOUGH to still sound feasible for Christianity, but they are subtely leading down other paths and promoting other false teachers of false religions on the way.

Who do I worry for? Not so much the mature Christian, IT'S THE IMMATURE BABES IN CHRIST and the unsaved who are lured by it and don't have discernment yet. How that must stumble them.
Are we concerned about the ones who can be harmed? I am.

It is a stepping stone for full blown heresy later. This is how deceit starts. They don't start out blatantly obvious, they'de never make it in christianity; they mingle enough truth in with the false and slowly bait you so you take the bait. (same way Satan lies).
Once your defenses are down and you have some trust in them as teachers, they lead you to the more hardcore heresies that come later on.

That is how false teachers operate. I want nothing to do with that man & his cohorts when we have libraries full of Godly scholars and teachers that God has already given us to glean from.
That don't teach how to breathe for spiritual access, or teach that we all have God in us & shine God's glory from within - incl. non believers ...

When anyone shows hints & signs of false teaching, I RUN, I don't dabble & try to glean stuff from them. They are automatically unfit to teach me of God - namely when I have so many other wonderful teachers I could be learning from who bring the truth.

Nadiine · Jun 25, 2008

I'm also dropping this video link in to prove my points about how teachers/leaders can gain the trust of people in the Christian community...
and then after some time, listen to what comes out after they already have a huge following.

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=4747

Johnnz · Jul 1, 2008

Rob Bell has a stance that can be found in the church fathers prior to the melding of pagan Greek concepts into Christianity through Augustine, Aquinas and many subsequent teachers. This has led to a dualistic position - spiritual/natural; private/public; a loving Jesus and a sin seeking God; approval from God based on 'being good', defined by various codes. God is placed outside His creation, separated from non Christian life and activity.

Rob Bell is just one of many committed Christians who are prepared to work through their teaching without just overlooking some inconvenient Scriptures.

Rob Bell and others challenge some of traditional evangelicalism that cannot sustain a well developed biblical critique, in spite of evangelical's staunch assertions that their view alone is the genuine expression of God's revelation to mankind in today's society.

John
NZ

Why is Rob Bell considered a heretic?

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