Why is Jesus the ????

[Frogster]

Stumbling block, if one tries to come to Him by law, all showing that if one tries to come to Him by law, he will stumble, all showing that the road to the Lord, can't be law. Jesus, Peter and Paul all said the same thing.

Matt 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?



Rom 9:32
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”


1 Peter 2:6
For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Great question. I note a peculiar silence from the advocates of legalism here.

 

[Frogster]

Great question. I note a peculiar silence from the advocates of legalism here.

Thanks! yup, me too! the text takes down legalism!

 

[James Is Back]

Ephesians 2:11-22

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Frogster]

Ephesians 2:11-22

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

You got it!

I wonder if anyone will try to challenge the amazing truth in those verses, from Jesus and 2 apostles!

 

[VictorC]

All very good posts. Christ's redemption is a stumbling of offense to all those who depend on Israel's old covenant with death for their "salvation" via their own works.

Isaiah 28
16 Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
Whoever believes will not act hastily.
17 Also I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the plummet;
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
18 Your covenant with death will be annulled,
And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
Then you will be trampled down by it.
19 As often as it goes out it will take you;
For morning by morning it will pass over,
And by day and by night;
It will be a terror just to understand the report.”
​

Hebrews 7:18-19 shows the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Guys, the software upgrade is terrible. Formatting a post here is beyond tedious.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It has now been over three days and still no response from the legalists, even though they have been posting on other threads. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Frogster]

Give it three months, maybe someone will give it a try!

 

[Elder 111]

Stumbling block, if one tries to come to Him by law, all showing that if one tries to come to Him by law, he will stumble, all showing that the road to the Lord, can't be law. Jesus, Peter and Paul all said the same thing.

Matt 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?



Rom 9:32
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”


1 Peter 2:6
For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

1. These texts do not say that the law is a stumbling block.
2. No one, as far as I know advocated that coming to Christ is through the law?
3. You can not say that we can break any of Ten commandments and be holy before God, any time such is placed before you and others the resort is to say "we do not promote sin".
4. Jesus would not pronounce a blessing on something that would prevent us from coming to Him would He now? Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
   
   15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
   
   
5. When we are in Christ we must walk holy. Walking holy is defined in the Ten commandments. Show which one is unholy if you differ.
   1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
   2. You shall not make idols.
   3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
   4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   5. Honor your father and your mother.
   6. You shall not murder.
   7. You shall not commit adultery.
   8. You shall not steal.
   9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
   10. You shall not covet.

 

[Frogster]

1. These texts do not say that the law is a stumbling block.
2. No one, as far as I know advocated that coming to Christ is through the law?
3. You can not say that we can break any of Ten commandments and be holy before God, any time such is placed before you and others the resort is to say "we do not promote sin".
4. Jesus would not pronounce a blessing on something that would prevent us from coming to Him would He now? Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
   
   15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
   
   
5. When we are in Christ we must walk holy. Walking holy is defined in the Ten commandments. Show which one is unholy if you differ.
   1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
   2. You shall not make idols.
   3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
   4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   5. Honor your father and your mother.
   6. You shall not murder.
   7. You shall not commit adultery.
   8. You shall not steal.
   9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
   10. You shall not covet.

the text does clearly show, that if a person tries to come to Christ by law, they will stumble over HIM...he is the law stumbling block, that is a fact, only by the cross, is the way to Christ.


The cross is an offense to the law people, circumcision meant keep the law, this is also a fact.
Gal 5:11 But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed.

 

[disciple1]

Stumbling block, if one tries to come to Him by law, all showing that if one tries to come to Him by law, he will stumble, all showing that the road to the Lord, can't be law. Jesus, Peter and Paul all said the same thing.

Matt 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?



Rom 9:32
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”


1 Peter 2:6
For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

Well said frogster I believe if anyone uses any law there stumbling unless they use the law to lead them to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

 

[Frogster]

Well said frogster I believe if anyone uses any law there stumbling unless they use the law to lead them to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Thanks bro! You see the clarity of the text, amen!

 

[Elder 111]

Well said frogster I believe if anyone uses any law there stumbling unless they use the law to lead them to Christ.
Galatians chapter 3 verses 24,25,23
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

These are the texts you used.
Matt 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?



Rom 9:32
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”


1 Peter 2:6
For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
The first has nothing to do with the law. The second speaks of works and serving God alone is not works as in the ten commandments, not stealing not works, not coveting is not works. It does not refer to the ten commandments, period! The third does not speak
of the ten commandments either, it talks about rejecting Christ, keeping that which honors Christ can not be a rejection of Him. Is serving God alone a rejection of Christ? That is what the first of the Ten commandments says.
Your claim is greatly flawed.

 

[Frogster]

These are the texts you used.
Matt 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?



Rom 9:32
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”


1 Peter 2:6
For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
The first has nothing to do with the law. The second speaks of works and serving God alone is not works as in the ten commandments, not stealing not works, not coveting is not works. It does not refer to the ten commandments, period! The third does not speak
of the ten commandments either, it talks about rejecting Christ, keeping that which honors Christ can not be a rejection of Him. Is serving God alone a rejection of Christ? That is what the first of the Ten commandments says.
Your claim is greatly flawed.

how about, you proving the premise of the op wrong, just on it's own merits?

Nothing off topic, no peripheral talk, just the facts, thanks!

 

[Elder 111]

how about, you proving the premise of the op wrong, just on it's own merits?

Nothing off topic, no peripheral talk, just the facts, thanks!

You have not proven it to be correct so there is no need to prove it wrong. You can not provide a valid text to support it.
Why seek to prove something to be wrong when it has already shown itself to be wrong?

 

[listed]

1. These texts do not say that the law is a stumbling block.
2. No one, as far as I know advocated that coming to Christ is through the law?
3. You can not say that we can break any of Ten commandments and be holy before God, any time such is placed before you and others the resort is to say "we do not promote sin".
4. Jesus would not pronounce a blessing on something that would prevent us from coming to Him would He now? Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
   
   15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
   
   
5. When we are in Christ we must walk holy. Walking holy is defined in the Ten commandments. Show which one is unholy if you differ.
   1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
   2. You shall not make idols.
   3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
   4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   5. Honor your father and your mother.
   6. You shall not murder.
   7. You shall not commit adultery.
   8. You shall not steal.
   9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
   10. You shall not covet.

1. Correct. Jesus is the stumbling block. I do not understand why some here continue to stumble over the law.
2. What? the law leads us to Jesus.
3. Then you have no holiness. Your statement says very clearly you get your holiness from the law. I do not understand when you break it all the time.
4. It has been pointed out to you that you and Jon are talking about different commandments. And we can do without your text condemning others.
5. It has been pointed out to you Christians are not obligated to that covenant of law.

 

[listed]

You have not proven it to be correct so there is no need to prove it wrong. You can not provide a valid text to support it.
Why seek to prove something to be wrong when it has already shown itself to be wrong?

Do you mean you simply do not accept what was said? Why and what is wrong with it. If there is something wrong with it surely you can easily show us as you say in request in your show us thread. That is not what you are seeking.

 

[Frogster]

You have not proven it to be correct so there is no need to prove it wrong. You can not provide a valid text to support it.
Why seek to prove something to be wrong when it has already shown itself to be wrong?

lol! the op does it all~!

 

[bugkiller]

Do you mean you simply do not accept what was said? Why and what is wrong with it. If there is something wrong with it surely you can easily show us as you say in request in your show us thread. That is not what you are seeking.

So why don't they. My pa said put up or shut up.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Great question. I note a peculiar silence from the advocates of legalism here.

Those being falsely accused of legalism - have already quoted Rom 3:31, 1 Cor 7:19, 1 John 5:1-4, Rev 14:12... showing the NT authors strongly affirming "the Commandments of God" -- and as we see in Romans 3 and 6, Romans 8, Romans 2 "the Law of God" ...

The effort to get NT authors to be thought of as opposed the Law of God has already failed, and even the majority of pro-SUNDAY scholars admit to the fact that the TEN Commandments are still binding on the saints today as they were in Eden. That includes pro-Sunday sources such as D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" , the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

The problem is not solved by simply calling all Christians in all groups outside of one tiny anti-Sabbath sliver -- "legalists".