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why is it....

Discussion in 'Questions by Non-Christians (Archived)' started by Arthur Dietrich, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Arthur Dietrich

    Arthur Dietrich Prince of the Earth

    659
    +24
    Agnostic
    I came to this site hoping to feel better (I'm a very depressed person) or even uplifted. Instead I leave feeling much worse.

    I used to think Christianity was a beautiful religion with good teachings. Now I come to Christians and get nothing but hostility and hatred.

    Why?

    What really turned me off was the people representing God. From what I have seen and what I have experienced I would be ashamed to be a creation of God because it would group me with people who cause me such pain.

    I tell the Christians I've met who say they are trying to show me love and truth that they are only hurting me, but they won't stop. They're slowly beating me to death while saying messages of love. Why? Why do they do this?

    I know this doesn't apply to all Christians. But I've taken so much from I kind I'm speaking of...

    My dream-like image of Christians has been shattered ever since I came to this site.

    Please...someone just tell me why people are so cruel. Why any God would allow it.

    I'm tired of it all...all the arguing...everything. Someone just tell me why. That's all I want.
     
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  2. kimber1

    kimber1 mean people suck

    +786
    Catholic
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    i totally understand where you're coming from. the bickering adn the senseless arguing seems to have gotten extreme as of late and it can be very disheartening. just keep in mind that you are going to encounter all sorts of different people by coming to a message board. take things with a grain of salt. know that ultimately it does not matter what others think of you, only that you are doing good in God's eyes. He loves you adn will give you comfort!! and if there's anything you need to talk about my pm box is always open! God bless!
     
  3. JillLars

    JillLars It's a Boy! Jace David- Due 1/20/07

    +108
    Lutheran
    Single
    Hey Arthur. I am sorry that you are feeling discouraged. Keep in mind that as Christians we are supposed to represent Christ, but we are humans nonetheless, and we all fall short. Emotions run high, and we all fall victim to pointless biccering at one time or another. Remember that Christianity is not about the members of the faith, but rather about Christ, who died for our sins, including the terrible behavior we often display. Even if your dream like view of Christians has been shattered, don't let it shatter your view of Christ, he should always be the focus, otherwise it is too easy to stray from Christ. I know, I was so irritated by the behavior of some Christians that I left the faith for a good 3 years, I completely denied God because of some stupid highschoolers that made me mad. I realize now, that was a mistake, and that God doesn't condone their actions, nor the actions of other Christians who behave badly. I hope you will feel more encouraged by concentrating on Christ. :) :hug:
     
  4. BarbB

    BarbB I stand with my brothers and sisters in Israel!

    +482
    Messianic
    US-Republican
    Dear ArthurDietrich -

    Just a suggestion, but you seem to spend time in the more lurid threads here at Christian Forums. These threads tend to get everybody's fur up and no one is on good behavior. Try posting in the friendship areas and lurking in the Christian areas. You might see a different face to Christianity.

    I am depressed too, though on meds, and I stay away from the homosexual threads, Sexuality forum, any occult threads, etc. Instead I try to focus on the "good and noble" areas. Doesn't mean I don't get lured into Apologetics foodfights occasionally, but I try not to concentrate my time there. :D:

    :hug:
     
  5. Spicy McHaggis

    Spicy McHaggis I don't know nothin 'bout birthin no babies

    +738
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    ***rant alert***

    You know what I think?

    Well, back in the day (correct me if I'm wrong) there were these guys called the Pharisees, all they did was argue. Jesus (despite being here to save the world) even said it was a waste of His time to get drawn into a conversation where nobody wants to learn, they just want to argue. It's an energy drain.

    So, one of the problems with an internet forum is that it's geared for discussion, which naturally draws this type of personality. So, IMO, this board is littered with modern day Pharisees. And they're amped up because they strike out in arguements from the safety of their computers with no acountability. They're not face to face with the people their talking too, if they were, they'd probably tone it down a bit.

    I feel you're frustrations. I used to get involved in those debates, but then realized what a waste of time they (the debates and the debaters) are. Don't get too discouraged, if you hang around long enough, you'll see that there are a few people here that focus on encouraging their brothers and sisters, and aren't just "looking for a fight". When you find those people, reply in their posts, and you can develope a continuing relationship with them that builds, not destroys.

    Just my $0.02
     
  6. Kelly

    Kelly Dungeon Master

    +402
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You must be a thief because you just stole my $.02.

    I completely agree with you. I used to get all upset at trolls and argumentative types on the web. Suddenly, one day it dawned on me that it didn't matter. Now I just laugh and roll with it.

    My objective in posting is to 1. make people smile/laugh. 2. give people support

    I go easy on the advice and judgement because who am I anyway? Just another t00l on teh INtarW3b!!11
     
  7. Spicy McHaggis

    Spicy McHaggis I don't know nothin 'bout birthin no babies

    +738
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    kelly, joo [email protected] IN7arweb!!!1 :D
     
  8. Arthur Dietrich

    Arthur Dietrich Prince of the Earth

    659
    +24
    Agnostic
    Thanks guys.

    I think I just needed a verbal hug.

    I think I obsessively complusively come to this board. I know it's just a lot of running around in circles (and eventually into brick walls).

    My own faith teaches to see beauty in everything. But I just can't see the beauty in some people. I know everyone is only human, but my standards for humanity are freakishly high. The trouble with humans is they can so often be so inhuman.

    This message board isn't the only place I've gotten grief from Christians. I haven't gotten a lot of love from them in my neck of the woods. two of my favourites: I was kicked out of a church choir and some guys tried to make me a Wiccan martyr XP I probably still have the bruises.

    What really gets my goat is when I die if there is a God and I've gotta confess my sins and all that the first thing I'm going to wonder is 'why am I doing the apologizing?'

    Ok...I haven't been perfect and have a few things to say I'm sorry for..but all the same XP

    Maybe I'll be stubborn and won't apologize and get sent to Hell. It can't be worse than this. lol. XP
     
  9. Spicy McHaggis

    Spicy McHaggis I don't know nothin 'bout birthin no babies

    +738
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    :hug: yoink


    One thing I've always wondered too, after I've died and I'm standing in fron of God, going over what I did with my life is

    "what will I say in my defense?"

    Most of my answers are shallow and transparent. We've all got things to apologize for, but it's between God and us. I don't think any of my "yeah, but..."'s will hold up.

    IMO, when I find myself in those situations, where I know I should apologize or forgive, but can't get past my humanity, I say it to God just like that. You know, "God, here's my problem, I know what you want, what the heck do I do about it? You know where I am and you know where I need to be, point me in the right direction" and then let God handle it, or at least show me how to handle it.

    And speaking of grief from Christians, how bout that Holy War eh? Really helped me define the line between faith in God and faith in man...
     
  10. Galadriel

    Galadriel Lady of Light

    +82
    Christian
    Married
    Yeah really, back in the Middle/High Ages, whew!! That was definately a cutthroat time to be alive. Christians (mostly Protestants vs Catholics) were going at it back and forth for many years, killing and all. Talk about making you feel down on your religion! Christianity preaches peace, and all these guys were doing was killing and arguing with each other.
     
  11. sracer

    sracer Humble Servant

    79
    +2
    In a nutshell, our human pride keeps surfacing and trying to get control. We Christians are instructed to study, to offer a reason for the hope that lies with in us in meekness and fear. We got the studying part down... but we kinda forget the "meekness and fear" part. ;)

    With study comes knowledge.
    With knowledge comes confidence.
    With confidence comes pride.
    With pride comes.... a fall.

    And it doesn't need to be "knocked down" to be a fall... simply failing to love others in a Christ-like manner is a fall.

    I constantly struggle the urge to "show my knowledge" to prove that I'm right versus lovingly explain my position in the hopes of edifying others and leaving it at that.

    I often find myself praying for discernment... for the Holy Spirit to help me know when to make a point, defend a position, and to determine the motivations of a person with a contrary view...and when not to say anything.

    Becoming self-righteous and judgmental are real dangers... and we should pray for help and guidance against that.
     
  12. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

    +412
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I can certainly empathize with what you are saying. Fortunately, I have a different perspective on it than you. Here is something that non-Christians should come to understand. Being a Christian, from our end of the covenant, means that we are to strive to put on godliness and put off our old, fallen ways. We are to strive to obey God in every area of our lives.

    Now, the that is the biblical truth of a regenerate (born again) person. Regenerate does NOT mean sinless or glorified or even sanctified. It doesn't mean better. It doesn't even refer to a person who is good at refraining from sinning. We have been forensically justified in the eyes of God but, to be sure, it was not based on any merit in us. We are just people and often not very nice people. That is not an excuse. It is the reality.

    If you come to understand that we, by the grace of God, are just people who have decided that the Word of God is our standard by which we measure the truth in all things, including especially our own lives. We fail. We fall short. We often act just like we did before God brought us back to life.

    Just remember, Christians represent God insofar as they are able. The ungodliness of man, while definitely within God's providential plan, does not show the world the character of God.

    Well, you are human which makes you a creation of God. As for being grouped with people who cause pain I'd venture to say that none of us, to include you, is innocent of causing pain. What we are called to do when we see the sinfulness of others is use it as a means of being sanctified. We are given the opportunity to minister to those who are struggling. We are given the opportunity to learn about our own sinfulness when God reveals the sinfulness of others. And, we are given the opportunity to forgive others for their sinfulness as the Lord has forgiven us.

    Because people are, by nature, children of wrath. It is our very nature to be self serving. That's why the gift of God's grace is so miraculously magnified because it is that very grace that puts us at peace with Him and conforms us to the image of His Son.

    I could not tell you all the reasons God brings things to pass but I can tell you a few. For one, it serves God's purposes by teaching us how to deal with difficult situations in a godly way. You see, you, as a non-Christian (that's an assumption so please forgive me if I'm wrong) see a difficult situation as a futile experience. It serves no purpose other than to be difficult. We, as Christians, know that ALL things work together to bring God glory and sanctify us, especially the things we struggle with. That's why Jesus' brother James said, "Brethren, count it all joy when you face various trials knowing that the testing of your faith produces perseverence." You see it is by that "testing" that we are "made perfect and complete, lacking nothing." How can anyone ever learn to put the needs of others before they're own needs if they never come in contact with a person in need? How can we ever learn to put on godly attributes if we are never in a position to need them?

    It's a process. Give the people time and grace.

    God bless
     
  13. Arthur Dietrich

    Arthur Dietrich Prince of the Earth

    659
    +24
    Agnostic
    Reformationist: So, basically you're saying 'no pain no gain'? The trouble is the more I ask for reason the more I get ripped apart. Trials are one thing...but we as humans can only take so much. The only reason I haven't killed myself (and I say this with complete honesty) is because I've got animals to take care of and now a little nephew (Now...heh-he's about 4 years old) to spoil. I've got people who need me, so I endure.

    But why? I feel like God is picking on me for his amusement.

    The harder I try to lift the weight the heavier it gets XP

    Oh, and the trouble is people who 'obey God' or say they are doing 'God's work'. I never expect people to be perfect...but some people have no excuse for their actions.

    I've had the 'don't pay attention to those kinds of people.' speech thrown at me a dozen times. It's comforting, but it doesn't make the scars go away.

    I know I cause people pain, but when I do (if I am aware of it) I feel guilty and don't try to justify it. You will find me get very defensive and even emotional simply because I don't want anyone to feel the way I feel.
     
  14. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

    +412
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    LOL! Well, that is a fitting anecdote in many cases but I don't think I'd say that dealing with difficulty is the only way we grow. Oftentimes we grow in the grace of God during situations that we are initially very pleased about or situations that God gives us the grace to recognize as opportunities to minister to others.

    Well, I guess it depends on what you're asking and to whom you're asking it.

    Any questions you have you are free to ask me and I'll do my best not to be judgmental or derrogatory.

    Actually, the truth of the human nature is that our threshold for putting up with difficult situations is oftentimes quite low. People, saved and unsaved, are often so self centered that it takes very little to make us feel persecuted. It's all a process of putting off the self centered sinfulness of our flesh which, as you know, is no easy process but we can take comfort in a couple of specific promises that we have in the Word. First, in 1 Corinthians 10:13, we read "No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it." Also, and this one has always been a source of comfort for me personally, Paul tells us in Philippians 1:3-6 "I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

    Well, I'm sorry for your struggles and I pray that you do not kill yourself. Believe me, it will not end your problems. God does not take amusement in the necessary sufferings of a disobedient creation but He does bring His wrath to bear. Be mindful of Him. Read and study His Word. I will pray that He enlightens you to the freeing truth of His Gospel.

    Well, the best laid plans of mice and men...

    Christians make mistakes Arthur. Christians often have good intentions but think they can bring about the Will of God through ungodliness. The only thing that we can do when faced with a deluded person, be they saved or not, is to try to help them to understand the error of their ways in a loving manner. It becomes apparent quite quickly what our motive is when we are faced with opposition. Oftentimes Christians get aggravated when their evangelizing doesn't produce the results they want. It's just immaturity and a lack of understanding that God tasked us with spreading His Truth in love, not saving people. Saving people is His territory.

    I understand what you're saying and I applaud your desire to not cause anyone any pain. It sounds like you have a heart for others and I encourage you to let that blossom.

    God bless you Arthur,
    Don
     
  15. HomeBound

    HomeBound Learning in the meantime

    +38
    Christian
    Single
    The major problem with us christians, is that we don't want to listen to other peoples point of views if it means getting rid of something we've learned from OUR interpretation of the Bible, or what our pastors/priests tell us.

    I was slaughtered by some fundamentalists because I'm a Christian that believes in NDE's, reincarnation and a temporary hell for some. And most of these beliefs were held by the very early Christians. I have even shown biblical support for these beliefs, but I was still tarred and feathered.

    I was even told I may be going to hell for my "heresy"

    So, as long as you don't post any feelings that aren't widely believed, you'll be fine.

    This post may have an overtone of disdain, but I am still upset about it, and the Closed-mindedness of some.
     
  16. Brooke

    Brooke Pink Breegull

    948
    +33
    Pantheist
    I've heard of people who grew up bitter towards Christ because of things certain Christians did to them during their life, often under the idea that they were doing them in the name of their faith. That makes me sad.
    I mean, is it Christian behavior to disown your child because he or she is Wiccan? NO! :sigh:
     
  17. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

    +412
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Well, I guess that would depend on your definition of "disown." It most certainly is biblical to make it clear, even to your child, that an ungodly lifestyle will not be condoned, tolerated, accepted or encouraged. Within the body of Christ, the church, the same rule applies. In fact, if church members are living a lifestyle of immorality they are supposed to be cut off from fellowship with the rest of the body.

    For instance, if a person is committing adultery there is a proper church procedure for dealing with it. First, one who is strong in the faith and able to approach in love should speak to the person who is living in sinfulness and encourage them to stop living that lifestyle. If they do not repent (stop living the lifestyle of sinfulness and start being obedient to God) they should be approached by 2-3 elders in the church and, once again, be encouraged to stop and warned that if the person persists church discipline will follow. If that person continues to disregard the council of the church body the proper, biblical procedure is for the church government to cut them off from fellowship and forbid them to return until they repent.

    So, if that is the same as "disown" to you, then, well, it is completely biblical.

    Of course, the most important part of this process is that all steps in this process should be motivated by a love and concern for the offending party.

    God bless
     
  18. water_ripple

    water_ripple Well-Known Member

    +18
    Christian
    People can be mean and hateful. Intentionally or unitentionally. They can scar and bruise. Alas we are imperfect and filled with pride. I am right and you are wrong blah, blah. But, there are some who can forgive and some who cannot. And those who can forgive are much more fun to be around. If one can forgive they can learn to grow in love. They tend to smile more. If one cannot forgive they learn to grow in contempt. And these tend to become bitter. So try to stay strong and greet mean people with smiles and gentleness. Nobody can resist this forever.
     
  19. chriso

    chriso Regular Member

    385
    +20
    Protestant
    Friend we must remember God is a God of love, sometimes we as humans try to give comfort but are not sure how. Take your troubles to the Lord in prayer, pray for understanding, comfort and guidance. You can not let Satan claim victory!!!! If you love the Lord and have accepted him YOU ARE A CHILD of the KING!!!! Satan knows our weaknesses and knows how to hurt us. Hang on to the Lord. I will be praying for you
     
  20. Y’VA–REKH’KHA ADONAI

    Y’VA–REKH’KHA ADONAI Member

    155
    +3
    Non-Denom

    Here's a hug for ya man :hug: Now tell me what this means? What is XP?
     
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