Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say...?

JasperJackson · May 13, 2010

One thing I don't quite follow is how you go from this: "regardless of what we may do, believe or achieve, it loves us." to this: "This means...we can do no wrong." I could understand if you said your spirit loves you even when you do wrong. But how can you say it follows that you can do no wrong? And then later you say: "And so long as I do not harm another living being on this planet, I do not think it cares how I choose to live my life." So what if you do do wrong, will your spirit be upset? Does your spirit have consciousness?

98cwitr · May 14, 2010

Spoonbill said:
This is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

So because you felt the "holy spirit" this is an immediate and exclusive trait to Christianity? Please do not be foolish.

Hindus also feel "the spirit" so to Muslims and almost anyone who is into any form of spirituality. A connection with the divine. I have felt it too.

This does NOT mean it is a "Christian" entity or feeling. Its just a feeling. yes, it might be God, but which one seeing as almost every single religious person on the planet (spiritual people too) can feel this spirit.

You immediately slap the "Christian" label on it, even though it applies to anyone who is spiritual?

Ridiculous.

Christians seem to think us non-believers are people incapable of feeling "the spirit". I get it. When you lot are rolling around speaking "in tounges", or when primative tribes are dancing around a fire getting into a deep trance-like state of meditation, this "feeling" is identical. Its all the same thing.

But no. Deny and lie all you want, because self-denial of the world around you seems to be the basis of all Christianity. A Christian would NEVER accept that perhaps, this feeling of connection with the Divine applies to other cultures as well.

Or even better yet, you will claim that what they are feeling is "false" and the exact same feeling your particular sect feels is "100% correct". Hillarious.

Christianity is basically saying that all 30,000 years of civilisation that occured before Christianity had absolutely no method of connecting with the divine. Heck, Christianity claims there WAS no civilisation before 6000 years ago...

Genius.

you're taking the statement out of context...the OP is clearly referring to the legitimate experience as reference in the Holy Bible. Before assuming this is NOT a Christian reference...might you rather direct your statement to the OP?

Freepeople · May 15, 2010

Well I must say that sometimes christians are to much and to long in their religion and oppinions and they do not turn on their brain and heart just blindly listening what their denomination,pastor and brothers and sisters have to say and that it is coming to judging and kicking people out of christianity...Something that Jesus never done or would not do....

Orraez · Jun 14, 2010

drich0150 said:
If you saw first hand some of the atrocities human beings were capable of during WWII or at any other point in our history, would it be possible for you to renounce your Humanity? Could you cease being Human just because you changed your mind about wanting to be associated with those in whom you detest?

I hope you don't mind me commenting on your example above given to another. Firstly the atrocity committed by some humans would not cause me to renounce humanity. Humanity obviously exists. But if I had believed that humanity was good then I would renounce the notion that all humans were always good. If as a result of that you replied that I could never have believed that humans were always good that I must have always believed they were capable of being bad we get into an absurd position. Because it is obvious that someone can genuinely believe and act on a belief and later give up that belief if experience/evidence demands.

Your position seems to me then is to include in the definition of a Christian that a Christian is a person who never loses faith. That is certainly permissible as a definition. However, the "humanity" example does not hold water for the reasons given. Ex-Christians may never have been Christians by your definition but it seems reasonable to assume that some at least were sincere in their belief and tried to put it into practise. It also does not seem fair to charge an ex Christian with practicing pop Christianity ( I assume you mean fake or superficial Christianity) just based on the evidence that they lost faith!

tomfst · Dec 23, 2010

drich0150 said:
If you saw first hand some of the atrocities human beings were capable of during WWII or at any other point in our history, would it be possible for you to renounce your Humanity? Could you cease being Human just because you changed your mind about wanting to be associated with those in whom you detest?

All of the things you listed are indeed apart of the Christian experience, but in of themselves do not make you "christian." Following Christ is a life long pursuit. if you decide half way through to no longer follow Christ, then it could be said you were never really a Christian to begin with. A Christian is not pronounced upon the willing completion of a few rituals. True Christianity is rewarded at the day of your final Judgment, as a direct result of the condition of your heart, and through the gift of redemption purchased by the blood of the Lamb...

If you do wish to claim the title of being a member of pop christianity, then it is all yours. (You have the credentials) Just know this title means little to anyone else except to those who replace it for the real thing.

Oh really? Last I checked redemption was a gift free and clear for you to accept or not.

The condition of your heart or "following Christ" you whole entire life has nothing to do with it. You are sounding like a "saved by works "person which would make Christ's sacrifice null and void if true.

You are still a sinner when you become a Xian. You still sin. You still think bad thoughts. Would this be considered not following Christ by your example? Or having a bad "heart condition'?

For the OP to no longer be a Christian wouldn't he have to undo all the work done on the Cross? I don't think that is possible.

Can a Christian become a Christian and backslide? Live a life of doubt? Live a life of sinfulness to the max? Yes.Yes. Yes. It doesn't make them NOT a Christian.

Furthermore while we can say someone may not have Christ like behavior we cannot truly say whether they are a Christian or not. Only God can do that.

Even the Disciples denied Christ and doubted Him. Remember the boat and the storm? Peter's doubt did not make Jesus hesitate. There was no reluctance on his part to save a believer whose faith wavered and weakened in the storm of life.

This is not "pop" Christianity but straight from the Bible.

Why don't some of you be a little less judgemental and a little more cool-you know like Jesus was?

tomfst · Dec 23, 2010

Mad_at_God said:
I guess that I need to write it again. Repeating things twice is sometimes necessary for some people.

Who gave you the authority to judge my heart? You do not know about the history of my relationship with God. The few posts that I have made on this forum do not provide sufficient insight into the details of my character. Besides, how do you know that I'm just not feeling well and the few posts that I have made reflect my depressed mood but not necessarily my true self?

Oh, and insulting me with scripture that calls me a fool isn't helping your argument in the least bit.

Mad at God the irony that some people can't see here is that they just might be those people who claim to know God yet will be cast aside. I don't see a whole lot of seed sowing or good news spreading. I do see a lot of judgment and accusations.

I am pretty sure Jesus would not be this judgmental and I think He would be cool instead of arguing semantics.

Using the Bible as a hammer rather than a mirror is not wise.

You should always lift up and encourage your fellow man rather than condemning Him as non-Christian right off the bat.

Passive- aggressive Bible quoting is really not helping anything either.

Instead of taking the high road or being amicable and polite many of you seem to be helping to turn people away from this forum and who knows what else.

Please stop it.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 23, 2010

Subscribing

chilehed · Dec 24, 2010

Mad_at_God said:
Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say they were never Christians?....

That's a Protestant thing. A Catholic wouldn't say that.

I agree, it's an irrational statement that's not supported by Scripture, but they sincerely believe otherwise.

visionary · Dec 24, 2010

JasperJackson said:
One thing I don't quite follow is how you go from this: "regardless of what we may do, believe or achieve, it loves us." to this: "This means...we can do no wrong." I could understand if you said your spirit loves you even when you do wrong. But how can you say it follows that you can do no wrong? And then later you say: "And so long as I do not harm another living being on this planet, I do not think it cares how I choose to live my life." So what if you do do wrong, will your spirit be upset? Does your spirit have consciousness?

That's why I believe God drew lines because we have all gone astray.. everyone his own way.. and God knows the only Way we should go.. John 5: 46. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?

Harry3142 · Dec 24, 2010

Mad At God-

Define what you believe Christianity requires of us. In your view what is it that makes a Christian a Christian? What do you think a Christian has to do to become a Christian? What does he have to do to remain a Christian? How easily can he 'fall away' from the Faith?

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 24, 2010

chilehed said:
That's a Protestant thing. A Catholic wouldn't say that.

I agree, it's an irrational statement that's not supported by Scripture, but they sincerely believe otherwise.

Where the heck do you get that from?
I thank God I am neither RC or Protestant

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 24, 2010

Mad_at_God said:
I guess that I need to write it again. Repeating things twice is sometimes necessary for some people.

Who gave you the authority to judge my heart? You do not know about the history of my relationship with God. The few posts that I have made on this forum do not provide sufficient insight into the details of my character. Besides, how do you know that I'm just not feeling well and the few posts that I have made reflect my depressed mood but not necessarily my true self?

Oh, and insulting me with scripture that calls me a fool isn't helping your argument in the least bit.

I would agree.
Must be something lost in the translation somewhere

It would seem that the greek word for fools in the greek NT/NC is where the english word for "moron" comes.
Interesting to note that it is used only in the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus was speaking to the corrupt murderous Judean rulers who eventually turned Him over to the Romans to be crucified.
Interesting

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3474&t=KJV
Strong's Number G3474 matches the Greek μωρός (mōros), which occurs 13 times in 13 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Young) Matthew 23:17 Fools and blind! for which [is] greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?

Young) Matthew 23:19 Fools and blind! for which [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that is sanctifying the gift?

3474. moros mo-ros' probably from the base of 3466; dull or stupid (as if shut up), i.e. heedless, (morally) blockhead, (apparently) absurd:--fool(-ish, X -ishness).

higherFaith · Dec 24, 2010

Mad_at_God said:
Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say they were never Christians?

I believe I may have done this at one point.

Mad_at_God said:
Christians who reason that faith is permanent (meaning that it is impossible to fall away once someone becomes a born again Christian) and say that any born again Christian who turns his back on Christianity was never really a Christian are using a good example of the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Stating you were never really a Christian, sounds a bit delusional to me. Faith is not permanent to me, nor will it ever be. However the truth is always permanent.

higherFaith · Dec 24, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
I thank God I am neither RC or Protestant

Wouldn't that be a personal choice of theological beliefs?

hope_is_last_to_die · Dec 24, 2010

Mad_at_God said:
Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say they were never Christians?

Because some believe that God created some people for heaven and others for hell. They would say that you didnt choose to become a Christian and so you cant choose not to become a Christian.

However in Galatians 5:4 God tells us that some people were severed from Christ because they decided to reject Him and turn back to the law to try and make themselves righteous before a holy God. So these people were Christians, then they rejected Christ and became non-Christians.

higherFaith · Dec 24, 2010

hope_is_last_to_die said:
Because some believe that God created some people for heaven and others for hell. They would say that you didnt choose to become a Christian and so you cant choose not to become a Christian.

If I can recall correctly, I believe I have spoken to a few who thought that way. I however cannot say I accept it as truth.

hope_is_last_to_die · Dec 24, 2010

higherFaith said:
If I can recall correctly, I believe I have spoken to a few who thought that way. I however cannot say I accept it as truth.

as I understand it some people think that God is less God because He gives all people the ability to either accept Christ or reject Him.

higherFaith · Dec 24, 2010

hope_is_last_to_die said:
as I understand it some people think that God is less God because He gives all people the ability to either accept Christ or reject Him.

How could it be derived that you have less power when able to give that choice, rather than not having the power and ability to give said choice? The same theory could be put to a Christian whom denies Christ publicly.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 24, 2010

higherFaith said:
Wouldn't that be a personal choice of theological beliefs?

I suppose it would be

hope_is_last_to_die · Dec 24, 2010

higherFaith said:
How could it be derived that you have less power when able to give that choice, rather than not having the power and ability to give said choice? The same theory could be put to a Christian whom denies Christ publicly.

Personally speaking I dont understand why some people think that God is less powerful because He gives all people the ability to either accept or reject Christ.

I appeal to the OP to return to Christ, thats what God wants the OP to do but He wont force this person to return to Christ.

Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say...?

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