Why is it Cool to vote for Obama?

WiseDonkey · Sep 4, 2008

Markus6 said:
Well there's the concept of original sin:

I can't find any biblical support for children going to heaven up until a certain age or stage and the doctrine is troubling to me as - like you pointed out - if it was true, killing them all would seem the merciful thing to do.

Well if it's true that once a baby forms in a moms womb it can already be called a person then it has to go somewhere right after its killed right? This is a bit troubling to me and I don't understand how we should deal with this. Same counts for severly mentally handicapped people.. They should have a free ticket to heaven?

I mean you could take it a step further and promise yourself you won't get any children, because that could mean you could save them from hell...

I think I should open up a new topic for this ....

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

twistedsketch said:
Think about this. Look at the people you see walking down the street. You would not be immediately able to tell if any of them had been conceived of rape or incest.

A young black girl is raped by a white man. She is pregnant. Does she have the abortion, yes or no? If yes, then you killed Ethel Waters.

Now, when the life of the mother is in danger, then I can see the exception - where it's either lose one or lose them both, you save the life you can.

I see your point, trust me. BUT no one, especially the government, should be able to tell me what to do with MY body. It is up to the person to decide if they have the mental fortitude to carry a child that is a by product of rape or incest.

They should not feel pressured by their family, pastor, friends, or the government. I wouldn't be able to find the strength to kill flesh of my flesh (it's my child no matter what, IMHO), BUT I respect the right of someone who is not strong enough to handle a situation such as rape or incest, along with having a child too.

Sketcher · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
I see your point, trust me. BUT no one, especially the government, should be able to tell me what to do with MY body.

I can use my penis to severely hurt or even kill someone. Should the government tell me what I can and cannot do with my body?

swtldy622 said:
It is up to the person to decide if they have the mental fortitude to carry a child that is a by product of rape or incest.

They should not feel pressured by their family, pastor, friends, or the government. I wouldn't be able to find the strength to kill flesh of my flesh (it's my child no matter what, IMHO), BUT I respect the right of someone who is not strong enough to handle a situation such as rape or incest, along with having a child too.

Then she's going to have the trauma of having had an abortion on top of the incest or the rape. I fail to see how an abortion would really help the victim. And while normally, I'm one to let people make their choices and either reap the rewards or suffer the consequences, I draw the line when a human life is being taken.

Fremdin · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
I see your point, trust me. BUT no one, especially the government, should be able to tell me what to do with MY body. It is up to the person to decide if they have the mental fortitude to carry a child that is a by product of rape or incest.

They should not feel pressured by their family, pastor, friends, or the government. I wouldn't be able to find the strength to kill flesh of my flesh (it's my child no matter what, IMHO), BUT I respect the right of someone who is not strong enough to handle a situation such as rape or incest, along with having a child too.

I totally agree with you. 100%.
When I think about what I would do in that situation I cannot even fathom the torture of that choice. But it would be my choice either way.

charlie_hunter · Sep 4, 2008

No really,

scrap the Democrats, scrap the Republicans, just call them the Abortion Party and the Non Abortion Party. that seems to be what both sides keep referring to in America. everything else is deemed irrelvent.

pretty much every online debate i've ever seen about american politics gets back to abortion. whats with that? what about the people dying in Africa/Middle East/South America? what about your own citizens dying from a lack of healthcare and the murders caused by a lack of education and oppertunity, facilitated by the mass distribution of weapons among civilians. why not vote about these people dying??

Tamara224 · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
I see your point, trust me. BUT no one, especially the government, should be able to tell me what to do with MY body.

This is and always has been a very absurd argument.

The government tells you what to do with your body all the time. You can't do certain drugs, you can't use your body to stab someone or shoot someone. The government tells you to get vaccinated or you can't go to school; the government can FORCE you to give breath/blood/urine samples if the government suspects you of drunk driving; the government can FORCE people to give a sperm and saliva samples for a paternity tests or criminal investigations....

The list of what the government tells us we can and can't do with our bodies really is endless.

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

twistedsketch said:
I can use my penis to severely hurt or even kill someone. Should the government tell me what I can and cannot do with my body?

Then she's going to have the trauma of having had an abortion on top of the incest or the rape. I fail to see how an abortion would really help the victim. And while normally, I'm one to let people make their choices and either reap the rewards or suffer the consequences, I draw the line when a human life is being taken.

That sounds like make believe to me, in order to make a point. N-O, in make believe and in real life.

For me it's simple, I am pro-life for myself. Meaning, I couldn't see myself having an abortion (unless it's life or death). It's my child, no matter how it was conceived. But pro-choice for everyone else. Meaning, I respect their right to choose, it's none of my business, and I have no rights over their body. This is a complicated subject, we can debate this all day, BUT nothing anyone says will change my mind.

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

Tamara224 said:
This is and always has been a very absurd argument.

The government tells you what to do with your body all the time. You can't do certain drugs, you can't use your body to stab someone or shoot someone. The government tells you to get vaccinated or you can't go to school; the government can FORCE you to give breath/blood/urine samples if the government suspects you of drunk driving; the government can FORCE people to give a sperm and saliva samples for a paternity tests or criminal investigations....

The list of what the government tells us we can and can't do with our bodies really is endless.

You're right. The government can FORCE us to do things for the greater good of society as a whole. My point is, having a child is MY choice. The government or pro-life people cannot lay down with me and force me to have a child. Whether I choose to have a child or not is none of your business or the government's.

I respect your opinion, BUT does not sway me one bit.

Sketcher · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
That sounds like make believe to me, in order to make a point. N-O, in make believe and in real life.

It's not make-believe. I could rape a woman, which would severely hurt her, or I could contract an incurable STD and give it to her, which would kill her. I could even double 'em up. Should there be a law against me doing this? I hope you'd say yes. But it is my body. Would I ever choose to do those things? Never, but that shouldn't make a difference.

Fremdin · Sep 4, 2008

But it isn't only your body. It's hers too.

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

charlie_hunter said:
No really,

scrap the Democrats, scrap the Republicans, just call them the Abortion Party and the Non Abortion Party. that seems to be what both sides keep referring to in America. everything else is deemed irrelvent.

pretty much every online debate i've ever seen about american politics gets back to abortion. whats with that? what about the people dying in Africa/Middle East/South America? what about your own citizens dying from a lack of healthcare and the murders caused by a lack of education and oppertunity, facilitated by the mass distribution of weapons among civilians. why not vote about these people dying??

That's so true. IMO, a lot of people are elephants or donkeys based on one or a few key issues that they just will not be swayed from. They don't look at the bigger picture. AND the parties know and understand this, that's why they do all they can to exploit things like abortion, religion, patriotism, etc. I have been doing my best to look at how each party feels about everything, not just the economy or the war.

Sketcher · Sep 4, 2008

Fremdin said:
But it isn't only your body. It's hers too.

That's why I'm pro-life. It's not just the woman's body. It's the baby's, too.

Fremdin · Sep 4, 2008

I'm Pro-life too, just so you know. But I want the right to choose. So we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm right from my side and you're right from yours.

trOlliJokinen · Sep 4, 2008

hmm, does anyone realize the Electoral College was set up so "hairy unwashed masses" wouldn't vote in our president? Sad thing is The House and Congress both have more power and say in our government than the president, but how many people can name their representatives?

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

Fremdin said:
I'm Pro-life too, just so you know. But I want the right to choose. So we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm right from my side and you're right from yours.

I am in the exact same boat as you. I don't want someone else telling me I don't have the right to make that choice.

Sketcher · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
I am in the exact same boat as you. BUT I don't want someone else telling me I don't have the right to make that choice.

You are where you are, but this is simply not consistent unless you're an anarchist. I shouldn't have the right to choose murder, rape, or theft. No one should have the right to choose murder of the unborn, either.

Fremdin · Sep 4, 2008

That's what I'm saying. I want to be able to choose. I could never make that choice but I want the option.

swtldy622 · Sep 4, 2008

Fremdin said:
That's what I'm saying. I want to be able to choose. I could never make that choice but I want the option.

Me neither, I couldn't even imagine making the choice to hurt my child. Because it is a child to me the moment it's conceived, not just an embryo.

Fremdin · Sep 4, 2008

I've known women who've had abortions and I don't judge them either. It's their choice. I hate that they did it but it's their right. My best friend had one in high school. I hated it but I was there for her.

Markus6 · Sep 4, 2008

swtldy622 said:
Me neither, I couldn't even imagine making the choice to hurt my child. Because it is a child to me the moment it's conceived, not just an embryo.

But surely you believe a woman doesn't have the right to kill her child once it is born. If it is a child in the womb what's the difference?

Why is it Cool to vote for Obama?

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