Why is It Considered Hateful to Call an Act Wrong?

GwynApNudd · Jul 18, 2007

Yes, some do overgeneralize, and that is wrong.

But there is a reason that they are wary of anyone who proclaims your message. And the fact that some of you do nothing to show that you disagree with the hateful who people claim to speak for you does not help clear up the confusion.

ReformedChapin · Jul 18, 2007

UberLutheran said:
NewGuy101 doesn't like arguing...

I see you don't know the difference between debating and arguing.

Zaac · Jul 18, 2007

GwynApNudd said:
Yes, some do overgeneralize, and that is wrong.

But there is a reason that they are wary of anyone who proclaims your message. And the fact that some of you do nothing to show that you disagree with the hateful who people claim to speak for you does not help clear up the confusion.

When I've mererly pointed out that your actions are wrong, what purpose is there to start explaining how I believe someone else's hate is wrong?

If I'm dealing with you one-on -one, what sense does it make to generalize and start calling me hateful or bigoted based upon what someone else has done?

this goes back to what I said you were doing. You brought up all these other issues when nothing I said warranted even broaching the subject of any of those.

But what you have shown is that this same hate and bigotry that people committing homosexual acts assign to those who question the Biblical wrongness of their acts, is the same hate and bigotry that they seem to respond with simply because their viewpoint is called wrong in accordance with God's Word.

GwynApNudd · Jul 18, 2007

Zaac said:
When I've mererly pointed out that your actions are wrong, what purpose is there to start explaining how I believe someone else's hate is wrong?

When you enter into a discussion where there is already a lot of animosity, generalization, and misunderstanding, if you do not want to be the victim of more of the same, it is necessary to make your position clear and to disassociate yourself from those that claim to share the same position as you but are instead, either deliberately or out of their own hurt, spreading more of that animosity, generalization, misunderstanding, and even, in some cases, hate.

That is why I have been very clear, right from the start to say that if you are not being hateful, I'm not calling you hateful.

If I'm dealing with you one-on -one, what sense does it make to generalize and start calling me hateful or bigoted based upon what someone else has done?

It makes no sense, but that does not stop people from doing it, out of hurt, or out of malice. I could quote back some of your responses to me on this thread where it seems like you re doing that very thing to me. I choose instead to assume that you did not mean them personally.

this goes back to what I said you were doing. You brought up all these other issues when nothing I said warranted even broaching the subject of any of those.

You asked "why." And even if those that assume that you are hateful are wrong, there is a reason why they make the assumption. It has to do with the history of the relationships between the two camps -- and the animosity, generalization and misunderstanding I mentioned earlier.

But what you have shown is that this same hate and bigotry that people committing homosexual acts assign to those who question the Biblical wrongness of their acts, is the same hate and bigotry that they seem to respond with simply because their viewpoint is called wrong in accordance with God's Word.

Now you are doing exactly what you are complaining that others do to you. Assuming that everyone on the other side feels exactly the same way (hatred) toward you. And you have less excuse, because I have made it clear that at least one person (me), dealing with you one-on-one does not hate you or assume that you hate him. You are making my point, and answering your own question.

IamRedeemed · Jul 19, 2007

ROFL! That one is one my seven wonders of the homosexual mind as well....

Zaac said:
Something else that I've never quite gotten. Why are Christians suddenly considered to be "scared of homosexuality" just because they speak against the committing of homosexual acts?

IamRedeemed · Jul 19, 2007

Exactly..... The despised hateful Christians that are always using those bad S and R words! (sin and repentance)

MercyBurst said:
"Repentance" - now that's a hateful word to some people. They say a loving God made hell for no reason, like God's the big dummie, and the bible crowd is just trying to scare everybody.

IamRedeemed · Jul 19, 2007

"Prowling gay areas?" How did you find this forum?

Please quote any of my messages that you deem are full of hate, and include why you deem x or y in the post hate. That is an open invitation to anyone here.

GwynApNudd said:
It is not the simple disagreement that gets you branded, it is the systematic attempt to strip gays of human rights. It's the campaigns to pass laws that allow housing discrimination; that allow harrassment in the workplace; that allow a person to be fired for no other reason than that they are gay.

If you are up in their faces screaming (as many Christians are) then you are acting in a hateful manner. If you are prowling gay areas and physically attacking, and even killing people you suspect of being gay, you are hateful. If you campaign for laws to strip gays of basic human rights, then you are guilty of discrimination.

If you let it go at that, then yes. But There are too many so-called Christians that do the hateful things I mentioned in the last paragraph.

And all of the gay men who turn up battered or dead just tripped and fell down the stairs?

No, what is hateful are the hateful actions. The gay bashings. The killings. The concerted campaign to marginalize a people and strip them of their rights.

If you are doing these things then you are acting hatefully. If you are not doing these things but you do support those who do, you are acting hatefully. If you know these things are happening and you deny that fact, then you are supporting the hateful actions. If you know these things are happening and you don't speak out against them because it will make others in your church question your Faith, then you are a moral coward.

If you are doing none of these things, then you are not hateful, you are not a coward, and the charges are not directed at you.

IamRedeemed · Jul 19, 2007

Amen Hanna, and sadly your post IS right on target!

hannahfievel said:
Well, this is imho...But I think the outside world that is not Christian see those who point out to others a sin...as they do not see what they are doing is a sin in Gods eyes.

Therefore it sounds hateful to them...when "sin" is mentioned! Therefore "our new countries rules...that we cannot say anything hateful against anyone of any faith, belief, or any other system that doesn't conform with "our governments beliefs"...Which are not Christian!

I think this is just the beginning of persecution in the west! They can say "anything" hateful against Christians, but certainly "not" the other way around! We are becoming the "bad ones" that won't conform ourselves to "this world"! Especially since "we are not of this world...We belong TO HIS! Amen!

And, remember Jesus Himself told us..."this would come to pass in the end days" that we would be hated as much as He was! So...live for His glory and not "this nasty worlds opinions of us"! Amen! Much love to you in Christ, hannah

Zaac · Jul 19, 2007

It makes no sense, but that does not stop people from doing it, out of hurt, or out of malice. I could quote back some of your responses to me on this thread where it seems like you re doing that very thing to me. I choose instead to assume that you did not mean them personally.

Gwyn, bout the only thing you can quote back is where I've asked you repeatedly why you are bringing into the discussion something that has nothing to do with the question asked. My point with you is that you immediately threw out red herrings in much the same way as do the ones who call Christians hateful for saying their acts are wrong.

If I'm talking to you about one thing, there's no need to bring in a myriad of other things to make your point.

You asked "why." And even if those that assume that you are hateful are wrong, there is a reason why they make the assumption. It has to do with the history of the relationships between the two camps -- and the animosity, generalization and misunderstanding I mentioned earlier.

Then you are agreeing that it is as I said. Folks are ascribing hate to anyone who disagrees with their position based upon their past encounters.

Now you are doing exactly what you are complaining that others do to you. Assuming that everyone on the other side feels exactly the same way (hatred) toward you.

Nope. If I had intended to say ALL people I would have. I did not say that. I pointed to a very specific group of people.

And you have less excuse, because I have made it clear that at least one person (me), dealing with you one-on-one does not hate you or assume that you hate him. You are making my point, and answering your own question.

Huh? Are you now a homosexual? And all you have done is made clear what I said a long time ago. The list of things that you gave served only to show that a lot of people who commit homosexual acts think Christians who tell them that the acts are wrong are hateful.

hannahfievel · Jul 26, 2007

IamRedeemed said:
Amen Hanna, and sadly your post IS right on target!

IamRedeemed,

Though I know this was just prophetic words from our Lord...that "we" would be hated for "speaking His truth". Which we are clearly seeing more and more of..but we just must "Trust" that HE knows exactly what He is doing, amen!

We must as Christians also remember...Judge not, lest we be judged. We can only relay to someone "what might happen if they stay upon "WHATEVER" course they have chosen" Tell them that God loves them...and then PRAY for them! Amen! WE cannot unfortunately "make" anyone DO anything they don't want to do...and not all are called...though that makes me sad! So..I pray for all the lost that they come into His wisdom and truth, amen. In His love for us all, hannah

UberLutheran · Jul 26, 2007

Zaac said:
18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [a] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. Ezekiel 3:18-19

Why do so many people consider it an act of hate or discrimination for a Christian to point out the committing of homosexual acts as sinful?

I think it's wrong for a Christian to claim that the Eucharist is nothing more than a remembrance of the Last Supper and that nothing happens to the bread and wine (not grape juice) after they are blessed -- but I end up receiving some of the most hateful (and blasphemous) comments from some Christians when I tell them the truth.

1. It is not "a symbol" -- it is the Body and Blood of Christ. That is not my opinion: that is the truth.
2. Christ never said anything about "grape juice" at the Last Supper or at the Wedding at Cana. He used wine.

Zaac · Jul 26, 2007

UberLutheran said:
I think it's wrong for a Christian to claim that the Eucharist is nothing more than a remembrance of the Last Supper and that nothing happens to the bread and wine (not grape juice) after they are blessed -- but I end up receiving some of the most hateful (and blasphemous) comments from some Christians when I tell them the truth.

1. It is not "a symbol" -- it is the Body and Blood of Christ. That is not my opinion: that is the truth.
2. Christ never said anything about "grape juice" at the Last Supper or at the Wedding at Cana. He used wine.

I'll reply later.

UberLutheran · Jul 26, 2007

Zaac said:
I'll reply later.

No real need to. Jesus was pretty clear about this. "This is my Body, broken for you... This is my Blood, shed for you..."

What's to misinterpret?

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 26, 2007

It's not.

It's when you jump on person for it that if becomes wrong. Which is, unfortunately, what most people do. The second you start even TRYING to be snarky or insulting, or the second you start using the words "you" or trying to condemn a person, you're not longer just CALLING an act wrong. You, Zaac, are very accepting. I respect that. You're a candle in the dark. But some people aren't like that. They go beyond saying "Well yeah, homosexuality is wrong" to doing this "Homosexuals are going to hell unless they repent!" True or not, I don't find it appropriate. There are kinder ways to say it. So far, Redeemed is the only one who's pulled of the kinder way.

I don't think we have any right to tell people they're going to hell. Unless you are God, you can't judge that far.

DMagoh · Jul 26, 2007

UberLutheran said:
I think it's wrong for a Christian to claim that the Eucharist is nothing more than a remembrance of the Last Supper and that nothing happens to the bread and wine (not grape juice) after they are blessed -- but I end up receiving some of the most hateful (and blasphemous) comments from some Christians when I tell them the truth.

1. It is not "a symbol" -- it is the Body and Blood of Christ. That is not my opinion: that is the truth.
2. Christ never said anything about "grape juice" at the Last Supper or at the Wedding at Cana. He used wine.

You hate me! How dare you use the Eucharist to justify your hate! If a black person used grape juice would it justify you being a racist?

(This post shows how ludicrous some of the responses to my posts have been.)

UberLutheran · Jul 26, 2007

DMagoh said:
You hate me! How dare you use the Eucharist to justify your hate! If a black person used grape juice would it justify you being a racist?

(This post shows how ludicrous some of the responses to my posts have been.)

First: the neither the discussion nor the post I made which you responded to have to do with race.

Second: we have black (and Hispanic, and gay, and lesbian) families which use the same WINE everybody else uses during the Eucharist and they receive the same grace that everybody in the congregation receives from the Eucharist.

Third: if you think I hate you, deal with it. That's your problem, not mine -- and that has been my opinion all along during this bogus "gays 'hate' us" fake argument.

DMagoh · Jul 26, 2007

UberLutheran said:
I think it's wrong for a Christian to claim that the Eucharist is nothing more than a remembrance of the Last Supper and that nothing happens to the bread and wine (not grape juice) after they are blessed -- but I end up receiving some of the most hateful (and blasphemous) comments from some Christians when I tell them the truth.

1. It is not "a symbol" -- it is the Body and Blood of Christ. That is not my opinion: that is the truth.
2. Christ never said anything about "grape juice" at the Last Supper or at the Wedding at Cana. He used wine.

DMagoh said:
You hate me! How dare you use the Eucharist to justify your hate! If a black person used grape juice would it justify you being a racist?

(This post shows how ludicrous some of the responses to my posts have been.)

UberLutheran said:
First: the neither the discussion nor the post I made which you responded to have to do with race.

Second: we have black (and Hispanic, and gay, and lesbian) families which use the same WINE everybody else uses.

Third: if you think I hate with you, deal with it. That's your problem, not mine.

Now you see how I feel! That's the type of responses I have been getting from certain homosexuals on this forum. Over and over again, they reply to one of my posts with that garbage. Always saying I hate them, am I a racist?, etc. etc. etc. Join the Club!

DMagoh · Jul 26, 2007

UberLutheran said:
and that has been my opinion all along during this bogus "gays 'hate' us" fake argument.

Where have you been? It's been the other way around! I wish I had a nickle everytime MrPirate and Calvin96 told me that I hated them.

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 26, 2007

DMagoh said:
Now you see how I feel! That's the type of responses I have been getting from certain homosexuals on this forum. Over and over again, they reply to one of my posts with that garbage. Always saying I hate them, am I a racist?, etc. etc. etc. Join the Club!

Actually, that's a pathetically dramatic way of trying to justify off logic.

Again, tolerance. Tolerance is trying to see things through the eyes of the one you don't approve of. It isn't ACCEPTING it. It's just trying to understand. YOU my friend, unfortunately, still need to do this.

UberLutheran · Jul 26, 2007

DMagoh said:
Now you see how I feel! That's the type of responses I have been getting from certain homosexuals on this forum. Over and over again, they reply to one of my posts with that garbage. Always saying I hate them, am I a racist?, etc. etc. etc. Join the Club!

Oh, goodness! Might we agree on something? Would that be like matter and anti-matter coming into contact with each other?

This is a statement about what I honestly think, and I honestly feel about people who hand me the "If you don't change" and "we love the sinner and hate the sin" cowpies and expect me to swallow them.

If people don't like that fact that I'm gay -- that's freaking tough!

Why is It Considered Hateful to Call an Act Wrong?

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