WHY is homosexuality sinful?

Saeph · Sep 25, 2006

There are numerious threads in the Ethics & Morality forum, but I wanted to open a thread to list reasons why homosexuality is called a "sin".

How does it affect/harm homosexuals or other people? Because all the other sins (stealing, murdering,...) are obviously harmful.

Maccie · Sep 25, 2006

You are so right! All the other sins, from the top of the 10 Commandments to the bottom are very hurtful to others, to ourselves and to society.

But we are all liable to commit them. Don't believe anyone who tells you they are sinless. So as we all have rather guilty consciences, and don't weant to admit our sinfulness, some Christians will focus on homosexuality. As they themselves are heterosexual (mostly) they can adopt a "holier-than-Thou" attitude with impunity.

However, you will get a whole long diatribe against homosexuals, with long, long bits of Scripture attached. Just remember that there are Christians who do not believe that homosexuals in a loving, committed and stable relationship are committing a sin.

Promiscuity, sleeping around, selling sex, whether homosexual or heterosexual is a sin. Its commonly called fornication. And of course, adultery is sinful. But it is the casual, expoloitative and careless nature of this type of sexual conduct which is sinful, not, in the opinion of many Christians, the gender of your partner.

Now watch all the Scripture quoters rise up and tell you I am totally wrong, and, if this thread gets heated enough, that I am not a real Christian, that I am denying the Bible and not walking in God's ways.

Momzilla · Sep 25, 2006

"Sin" isn't necessarily defined by whether it hurts someone, but by whether it is consistent with what God wants for us.

Scripture (and I won't bother with the references, as I assume that they are abundant in the other "gay" threads) teaches that the gift of sexuality is given to men and women who are in a sacramental marriage.

This means that *any* sexual conduct outside of marriage, be it heterosexual, homosexual, or self-gratifying, is sinful.

I think protestant churches are all worked up over homosexuality because there is such a strong movement to proclaim homosexuality as being *not* sinful.

For me, I left the Protestant church and became Orthodox because it was only in the Orthodox church that dealt with homosexuality both coherently (i.e., consistent with scripture) and compassionately (i.e., recognizing that homosexuals are not "worse" sinners than the "rest of us").

Saucy · Sep 25, 2006

All humans are born with a "sin-nature". We are inclined to sin...it's just as natural to us as our hair color. We simply fall short of being where God wants us to be...which is perfect. Christ makes us perfect in God's eyes, but we're still sinful.

Now, there are certain sins we are all inclined to do. Certain sins are more attractive to me than for me. For example...I might have a problem with lusting and you might just shrug your shoulders at it. Your problem might be stealing, but it doesn't phase me.

But, fact is, because I might be inclined to anger, doesn't mean I have the right to belt you across the face because you made me mad. Because I'm inclined to steal doesn't mean I have the right to steal your bike.

Why is every sin a sin??? God says don't have sex before marriage. Why? Where does it hurt? Well, because God said so. He doesn't have to answer to us.

God doesn't say not to do something just because He's a cosmic killjoy. Sex outside of marriage in general defiles the body and creates a whole host of mental and physical problems including STD's.

Now, marriage is defined in the bible as a virgin man and virgin woman, coming together to be as one person, starting a family and reproducing. It doesn't allow for STD's and the couple having sex is of age, responsible because they're married and is able to bring a child into the world. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God.

snoochface · Sep 25, 2006

Yeah, really simple answer for why homosexuality or any other sin is a sin: because God said it is. Do you really need any other answer?

The one who makes the rules gets to decide what's right and wrong. We don't make the rules, he does.

lilymarie · Sep 25, 2006

Considering your young age, I'd advise you to talk to your parents or a pastor about it.

I hope other posters will take your age into consideration also.

Athanasian Creed · Sep 25, 2006

Saeph said:
There are numerious threads in the Ethics & Morality forum, but I wanted to open a thread to list reasons why homosexuality is called a "sin".

How does it affect/harm homosexuals or other people? Because all the other sins (stealing, murdering,...) are obviously harmful.

It is called a sin because God's word defines it as such. It says in Leviticus that it is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. In the New Testament, in Romans 1, it is called "against nature" IOW, unnatural (Romans 1:26,27) Paul also says (and this is key, memorize it) -

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (IOW, homosexuals), Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were (past tense) some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Notice, he calls homosexuals "abusers of themselves with mankind" and calls them and the others he lists "the unrighteous" He warns that they will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God (which only means one thing, eternal damnation in the Lake of Fire)

It GREATLY affects/harms homosexuals to live contrary to God's laws. It emboldens them in their sinful lifestyle. They are a stumblingblock to their partner breaking out of a sinful lifestyle and getting right with God. It is a bad impression on those who see them and gives the impression that it is normal and natural, when God's word says otherwise. Of the few homosexuals i've known in my life (3), one committed suicide and none of them, even though they had the appearance of being joyful, i knew, deep down inside, they were anything but. 'Gay' is an oxymoronic term for homosexuals - they are constantly trying to justify their sin in the eyes of man and God and, as a result, some are very bitter, angry and unhappy!

Ray

Saeph · Sep 26, 2006

lilymarie said:
Considering your young age, I'd advise you to talk to your parents or a pastor about it.

I hope other posters will take your age into consideration also.

But that's exactly what I don't want you to do. In other topics, age isn't taken into consideration either, and I'm able to read it.

I've already talked to numerous religious people in my circle of friends. But I haven't got a single satisfying answer yet.

snoochface said:
Yeah, really simple answer for why homosexuality or any other sin is a sin: because God said it is. Do you really need any other answer?

The one who makes the rules gets to decide what's right and wrong. We don't make the rules, he does.

But I don't see any pain or harm caused by homosexuality - except many heterosexuals who seem to have homophobia. Some don't just call it a sin, they judge and discriminate homosexuals.

Like Maccie said, everybody's sinful, so have we the right to point with our fingers at other sinners?

And yes - I want to question everything the church I'm a member of believes. I have never been a person who took the bible just as it is, without asking and informing myself.

snoochface · Sep 26, 2006

Saeph said:
But I don't see any pain or harm caused by homosexuality - except many heterosexuals who seem to have homophobia. Some don't just call it a sin, they judge and discriminate homosexuals.

Like Maccie said, everybody's sinful, so have we the right to point with our fingers at other sinners?

And yes - I want to question everything the church I'm a member of believes. I have never been a person who took the bible just as it is, without asking and informing myself.

The harm to homosexuals is the same harm that comes to heterosexuals who have sex outside of marriage. There are emotional issues that arise from having premarital sex, you can get STDs, legal and financial responsibilities -- I don't advocate premarital heterosexual sex any more than I advocate homosexual sex.

The next question is, would my opinion change if homosexuals could get legally married? No, honestly, it wouldn't. We don't know all the reasons for God's rules. The Old Testament Jews didn't understand all the reasons why God would not allow them to eat certain animals, or why they had to become ceremonially clean after certain sins had been committed. Looking back now, we can see the hygenic reasons that God would make those things be sins. One day, we'll likely be able to look back and see why God made homosexual sex a sin. For now, we just have to accept that it is.

We should point fingers at ourselves, first, because as you said, we are all sinners. But just because I sin, that does not mean that I should not recognize that there are sins that I do not commit that are still sins. It doesn't make me homophobic to recognize that homosexual sex is a sin. It doesn't make me adulturophobic (made-up word) to recognize that adulturous sex is a sin. It doesn't make me murdurphobic to recognize that murder is a sin.

I don't commit these sins, but that does not mean that I should not recognize they are still sins. We are told to rebuke each other's sins in love, not in fear, not in self-righteousness, not in judgment. But, we are told to rebuke nonetheless.

MarkEvan · Sep 26, 2006

Hi Saeph, I`d like to just echo what Athenasian Creed said, (to tell you the truth I was a little gutted that he got there first ) Homosexuality is hugely hurtful to those who practice it (even if it is just in their minds), any sin is, but as we are talking about homosexuality i`ll stay on topic. They are living contrary to what God has ordained, they are confirming one another in their sinful lifestyle and due to this (and other sins) the wrath of God is being stored up against them.
Thankfully Jesus came to save those who are lost, his death was for homosexuals, as it was for muderes, adulterers and the nice midle aged couple that never seem to do any wrong, all need salvation and in Jesus all can have it, provided they repent.

Mark

vossler · Sep 26, 2006

Saucy said:
All humans are born with a "sin-nature". We are inclined to sin...it's just as natural to us as our hair color. We simply fall short of being where God wants us to be...which is perfect. Christ makes us perfect in God's eyes, but we're still sinful.

Now, there are certain sins we are all inclined to do. Certain sins are more attractive to me than for me. For example...I might have a problem with lusting and you might just shrug your shoulders at it. Your problem might be stealing, but it doesn't phase me.

But, fact is, because I might be inclined to anger, doesn't mean I have the right to belt you across the face because you made me mad. Because I'm inclined to steal doesn't mean I have the right to steal your bike.

Why is every sin a sin??? God says don't have sex before marriage. Why? Where does it hurt? Well, because God said so. He doesn't have to answer to us.

God doesn't say not to do something just because He's a cosmic killjoy. Sex outside of marriage in general defiles the body and creates a whole host of mental and physical problems including STD's.

Now, marriage is defined in the bible as a virgin man and virgin woman, coming together to be as one person, starting a family and reproducing. It doesn't allow for STD's and the couple having sex is of age, responsible because they're married and is able to bring a child into the world. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God.

What a great response!

Wouldn't even attempt to contribute because you said it so much better than I ever could. Thanks!

HisEagle · Sep 26, 2006

Saeph said:
But that's exactly what I don't want you to do. In other topics, age isn't taken into consideration either, and I'm able to read it.

I've already talked to numerous religious people in my circle of friends. But I haven't got a single satisfying answer yet.

Dear young one (that's not an insult), I have to stop you right there. When you make a comment like that, I have to honestly say you probably won't get a satisfying answer from anyone here at CF either.

My concern about you coming here to ask your question is that you are going to get a wide range of responses, and each person is going to do their best to pursuade you that their position alone is the only correct one. All that will do is set you up to be confused, and you will walk away from here having no more solid answers than when you started.*

Lilymarie's advice was right - you need to talk to a priest or pastor about this, and don't get caught up in the confusing mass of division you will find here.

*EDIT: I am going to amend that statement, and tell you that if you REALLY wish to know my own personal opinion about this, I will tell you. I am a gay man, and as such I have my own ideas about the subject - but my concern is that what I say will be picked apart by the others who may respond to this post, and I just don't want to add to the confusion.

kepp · Sep 26, 2006

I am a heterosexual man and I have known a couple homosexual men who have become Christians (one of them is one of my best friends). One of them couldn't maintain his self control and stay away from homosexual acts, so he went back fully to his old life. In the same way, I've known heterosexual Christians that couldn't maintain their self control either...and went back to their old lives. My point - sin is sin because God says it is and ALL sin can separate us from Him.

Sexual sin - no matter the orientation - is quite possibly the most hurtful sin out there...both to yourself and to others. It may not seem like it to you at your age (not trying to be condescending), but trust those of us that have experienced some of the hurts that it can cause.

Zaac · Sep 26, 2006

Saeph said:
There are numerious threads in the Ethics & Morality forum, but I wanted to open a thread to list reasons why homosexuality is called a "sin".

How does it affect/harm homosexuals or other people? Because all the other sins (stealing, murdering,...) are obviously harmful.

Biblically, homosexuality is NOT called a sin. The committing of homosexual ACTS is.

And the committing of this sin harms the person committing the offense in the same way as every othe sin. It places separation between the person and Christ.

EnemyPartyII · Sep 26, 2006

Yeah, really simple answer for why homosexuality or any other sin is a sin: because God said it is. Do you really need any other answer?

YES!

Faith without reason isn't faith... its just regurgitation of Bible verses.

Christians are supposed to Love God and be like him. How can you love anything if you don't at least TRY to understand it??!!

EnemyPartyII · Sep 26, 2006

It may not seem like it to you at your age (not trying to be condescending), but trust those of us that have experienced some of the hurts that it can cause.

Not that I don't trust you... but humour me. Examples?

kepp · Sep 26, 2006

EnemyPartyII said:
Not that I don't trust you... but humour me. Examples?

Sure. Spiritually-speaking, separation from God is as harmful as you can get.

Physical harm can come in the form of sexually transmitted diseases and the like.

There can be all kinds of psychological and emotional damage that results from sexual sin. Placing your hopes/dreams in a relationship that is primarily based on physical attraction and sexual sin is something I am all too familiar with. This was the basis for my first marriage. We met duing my 2nd year of college and were immediately and completely infatuated with each other physically. We got married several years later and, low and behold, we quickly found out there wasn't much more to our relationship than that. It resulted in divorce and a lot of emotional and psychological hurt that has taken years and years to overcome. There are parts of me that, even ten years later, are still in disrepair from it. I just thank God that we didn't have any children together. If that were true, my hurts would be the least of my worries.

Others can give you examples I'm sure, but trust me when I say that it can be very damaging.

EnemyPartyII · Sep 26, 2006

It doesn't allow for STD's and the couple having sex is of age, responsible because they're married and is able to bring a child into the world. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God.

virgins can have STDs, and in terms of abomination to God, so is a woman wearing men's clothing, yet I don't see all the chest beating and wailing going on about that. Seems like there's an agenda here, and much justification after the fact.

EnemyPartyII · Sep 26, 2006

Physical harm can come in the form of sexually transmitted diseases and the like.

but not sinning is not a guarantee ahgainst STDs, nor is sinning a guarantee to get them...

There can be all kinds of psychological and emotional damage that results from sexual sin. Placing your hopes/dreams in a relationship that is primarily based on physical attraction and sexual sin is something I am all too familiar with.

marriage is no safeguard against this either, as you said yourself. But presumeably there is no sexual sin in marriage... so I still don;t see how it follows that Homosexuality=bad stuff happening to you physically or emotionally... and if not, then fail to see why it is inherently sinful

kepp · Sep 26, 2006

EnemyPartyII said:
but not sinning is not a guarantee ahgainst STDs, nor is sinning a guarantee to get them...

marriage is no safeguard against this either, as you said yourself. But presumeably there is no sexual sin in marriage... so I still don;t see how it follows that Homosexuality=bad stuff happening to you physically or emotionally... and if not, then fail to see why it is inherently sinful

Is playing blackjack in Vegas a solid financial plan for your life? No? Then why would "this act may or may not hurt me for life - and it may or may not be hurtful to God - so I'll just go ahead and do it" be a good plan for life...especially considering a desire to seek God? The only "for sure" consequence of sin is separation from God (if the sinner remains unrepentent). IMO, this in-and-of-itself should be enough to keep us away from it.

IMHO, the hurt of lack of hurt cannot be considered when "classifying" something as a sin or not. The last and only word is from God. Sin is sin because God says it is.

WHY is homosexuality sinful?

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