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Shelb5 said:So you dont take vows???? You do not vow (stand before God and say) that you will love, honor and obey until death due you part? You leave it open ended???
Jesus was saying that an invalid marriage amounts to fornication. If you were never married you do not commit adultery- you commit fornication- two ppl who are not married properly and were not previously married before are committing fornication, not adultry- it is as if they are living together with out the benefit of marriage.eoe said:NO TRUE SCOTSMAN
If one fornicates then they were never really married right? No True Sacramental marriage could ever have adultery in it!
Fallacy.
eoe said:NO TRUE SCOTSMAN
If one fornicates then they were never really married right? No True Sacramental marriage could ever have adultery in it!
Fallacy.
So what do you do, just stand there?vanshan said:It's understood that this is one of the Holy Mysteries God gives us, so it is not taken lightly. No vows are made to each other during our service of matrimony. We know by the definition of marriage that is is holy and in it God makes two individual mystically one. We take it very seriously, and have a beautiful service. I'll post a couple photos from my wedding a few years ago, if I can find them . . . I'm at work.
Basil
Totally false. Ever heard of Mount Athos? There are many celebate monks that prove you wrong.And we have seen that the EO thinks man is so animalistic he has to have sex so he has to be married (so he can have sex) even when it is a sin to do so.
Shelb5 said:I thought yall were pretty much on the same page as us with understanding that when we are born again we are to become what Christ redeemed us to be by putting off the old (flesh) man and putting on the new man (Jesus Christ) and that would mean no longer allowing the flesh to rule us, that we gain control over our disordered passions (And that is what there are ya know disorderedpassion) by denying the flesh and living in the spirit and God is the one who will afford us the grace to do so, he said his grace is sufficient and he gives us no cross to heavy we can not carry.
How do y'all think perfection is reached if you give into your passions?
So whats the problem here? If you know ppl can abstain then why would you rather allow remarriage where they possibly may be entering into adultery which is deadly sin, instead of doing what is best for the persons soul by first examining if the marriage was valid and if it was suggesting that work things out with theor spouse or remain chaste.eoe said:Totally false. Ever heard of Mount Athos? There are many celebate monks that prove you wrong.
And I can tell you- giving into lust isnt going to get you there anytime soon. Do yall recognize virtues? Do you know that purity and chastity is a virtue that perfects us?vanshan said:We are made a new creature, but perfection has not yet been reached. Only the greatest of saints have even gotten close. Our nature is restored, but we must labor to overcome our passions, that doesn't happen instantly, as observation of any Christian should prove, Roman Catholic or otherwise.
Basil
Jesus was saying that an invalid marriage amounts to fornication. If you were never married you do not commit adultery- you commit fornication- two ppl who are not married properly and were not previously married before are committing fornication, not adultry- it is as if they are living together with out the benefit of marriage.
Not putting away your spouse except for fornication- means if you were never really married properly you are then fornication with the person and you are free to leave that situation.
If we are so wrong.. please and I am to the point of begging, please tell me what YOU think the words of Jesus and Paul mean?
Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.We need to get some terms in the Greek defined before this spins out of control. What is porneia?
G4202
πορνεία
porneia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.
eoe said:Thank you for defining the no true scotsman for us.
Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.
Noun
- S: (n) fornication (voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other)
- S: (n) adultery, criminal conversation, fornication (extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations) "adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"
And thank you for answering meeoe said:Thank you for defining the no true scotsman for us.
Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.
And that definition contradicts me how? You are assuming Jesus was referring to, you can leave in the case where you spouse was unfaithful and NOT because some marriages Like Paul said, amount to fornication, where the spouses are not truly married because they are not married before God.eoe said:Princeton university english definition. That work or you want more?
Do you really want to try to pull the traslation card on a greek orthodox? Seriously?
Shelb5 said:And I can tell you- giving into lust isnt going to get you there anytime soon. Do yall recognize virtues? Do you know that purity and chastity is a virtue that perfects us?
Ill have to check that out, becuase this is getting bizzare. Maybe Debbi Webbi can shed some light.ufonium2 said:We do the same thing Eastern Catholics do at their weddings, I'm pretty sure.
Im sorry but by the mere fact you will not explain the bible in light of what you teach and explain to us just how in the world Orthodoxy is rooted in scripture I can only conclude that like our Protestant brethren who may, on occasion like you, is just simply ignore the verses that do not fit into your theology.
If Orthodoxy is scriptural after all, then just show me how, and I'm Catholic, you can use Tradition as well to glean this is rooted in the ancient faith Jesus left for us.
And that is why Paul said it is better to marry than to burn but he never said it is best you keep marrying over and over again. Where are mulitple marrieges taught for the sake of lust? Where??vanshan said:Resisting lust is good, but to expect perfection from reception into Christ's Church is rigid and impossible. We begin our struggle at that point. Fasting, praying, and participating in the life of the Church will help us become more like Christ. Through theosis, we will overcome sin and death, but it's obviously not an instant process.
Basil
ufonium2 said:We do the same thing Eastern Catholics do at their weddings, I'm pretty sure.
Because you based your argument on fornication being different from adultery. That is how it totally contradicts you.And that definition contradicts me how?
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