Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

prodromos said:
Oh please. I bear no malice towards you whatsoever. Your false arguments are another matter.

Jesus says words are a spoken based upon what is in someone’s heart (See Luke 6:45).

You said:
You said that because pagans celebrated something on December 25, because pagans use trees, because pagans etc. therefore Christmas is pagan. I do not believe you are an atheist, I am just applying the same argument as you have in order, hopefully, for you to recognise the fallacy of your argument.

You did not clarify that I was not a God hating atheist in your initial post to me. Therefore it could be read that way as being suggestive of that I was a God hating atheist if you did not clarify that point to begin with. Also, you are not apologizing by what you said, either. It is mean and hateful to even imply or suggest that I was an atheist by saying I was in the same boat with them because I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ.

As for the analogy:

It does not work.
Atheists hate Christmas because they hate anything even remotely having to do with God. They are not hating Christmas for exclusively pagan reasons because they believe it violates Scripture. They are not even believers of the faith. That is like saying great white sharks are like sheep.

You said:
None of those things has any place in the Eastern Orthodox celebration of Christouyenna (Christ birth) as we call it, or the formal name, "The Nativity of our Lord". We fast from meat and dairy during Advent, the 40 days leading up to the feast, in preparation for the joyful celebration of the first revelation of Emmanuel, God with us. Two weeks later we are celebrating Epiphany, Christ's baptism, when the Father's voice was heard and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove.

Satan attacks both directly and indirectly. If a direct attack is unsuccessful he will try to corrupt in subtle ways.

So you believe the secular version of Christmas that most people celebrate is bad?

Not David · Oct 6, 2018

Kaon said:
The Word of God Himself never told His followers to celebrate Christmas. Show me one place where the Word of God Himself ever said anything about celebrating His day of birth.

After you show me where the Word of God Himself said to celebrate His birthday, or even a mention of Him telling us when He was born, I will let you know why it doesn't matter if humans who call themselves Christians celebrate Christmas without a problem.

Right where he said his disciple to write a Bible and follow only what that Bible said.

AnnaDeborah · Oct 6, 2018

Kerensa said:
Which means that insinuating that people of a particular denomination are not "real" Christians, just because you disagree with their theology or practices, is not on.

Jason0047 said:
Traditional churches is a collection of believers and unbelievers worshiping God together. But what fellowship does light have with darkness?

You are entitled to your beliefs, but Kerensa is right, implying that certain church denominations are 'unbelievers' is against forum rules. Please abide by the rules or find another forum.

Kerensa · Oct 6, 2018

I'm not sure you're actually reading what I wrote, Jason. That was my point — Jesus WASN'T breaking the Sabbath and WASN'T casting out demons through Beelzebub. But the Pharisees claimed he was, because what he was doing was against their interpretation of the law (and was a direct challenge to their own authority).

Your arguments against Christmas show a similar attitude towards Christians who celebrate Christmas — accusing them of going against Biblical commands and participating in something pagan and materialistic and outright Satanic. I would guess that for most Christians, there's nothing further from their hearts and minds when they celebrate the birth of our Lord — not that I can see into their hearts and minds any more than you can. Again, you can decide what Christmas means to you and choose not to celebrate it accordingly, but you can't dictate what it means to other Christians who do celebrate it as a holy and blessed time that has nothing to do with paganism or Satan or frenzied shopping sprees. Deciding for yourself not to celebrate certain holidays is fine, but using the Bible in a Pharisaical manner to "prove" that Christians who do celebrate those holidays are offending God... well, it's not likely to convince them and it's even less likely to encourage non-believers to see Christianity as something attractive. But that's your choice.

May God bless you too.

prodromos · Oct 6, 2018

The secular version does not celebrate the Nativity of our Lord. We in the Church celebrate the Nativity of our Lord, and His presentation at the temple, and His Baptism, and His healing of the paralytic/blind/lepers/demon possessed/etc. and His raising of the dead, and His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, and His transfiguration, and His crucifixion, and His resurrection, and His ascension, and the decent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, and, and, and,...

Daniel Marsh · Oct 6, 2018

[QUOThttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/279474260_The_Encyclopedia_of_Eastern_Orthodox_Christianity

E="Jason0047, post: 73249282, member: 356113"]I am not saying that every single thing written is going to be accurate in every single Encyclopedia. I am sure many Encyclopedias have some inaccurate information in them. But if they are all saying the same thing in regards to Christmas in the majority of Encyclopedias, then that means something. To top it off, the name Christmas itself sounds Catholic. Christ mass. The mass of Christ. Think about it. Do you celebrate the mass?[/QUOTE]

All but one of them is known to be outdated and Anti-Christian. The only Religious one is known to be Anti-Catholic. You may want to use the Catholic one online. I do not know if there is an Orthodox one for contrast and comparing. Also, Encyclopedias is not even good introduction to religious and some philosophy groups.

"Christmas (December 25th) is a feast of Western Christian origin. In Constantinople it appears to have been introduced in 379 or 380. From a sermon of St. John Chrysostom, at the time a renowned ascetic and preacher in his native Antioch, it appears that the feast was first celebrated there on 25 December 386. "Calculating Christmas

Nativity - OrthodoxWiki
https://www.google.com/search?ei=Gj...0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j33i299.M55pAJkj5lw

Daniel Marsh · Oct 6, 2018

Scan to here time to make dinner.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

AnnaDeborah said:
You are entitled to your beliefs, but Kerensa is right, implying that certain church denominations are 'unbelievers' is against forum rules. Please abide by the rules or find another forum.

When I was saying unbelievers I was referring to atheists/agnostics who celebrate Christmas. In other words, please show me where I said that certain Christians are unbelievers. If I said certain believers or Christians are unbelievers, I will be happy to edit my post.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 6, 2018

Im curious.

Does the bible flat out say we should never celebrate a holiday or day?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
Im curious.

Does the bible flat out say we should never celebrate a holiday or day?

Romans 12:2 (NLT) says,
"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Christmas is a custom of this world.
King James says "do not conform to this world."
Are we not conforming to this world by doing what most of all the world does in regards to keeping a holiday that is recognized by many countries?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

Kerensa said:
I'm not sure you're actually reading what I wrote, Jason. That was my point — Jesus WASN'T breaking the Sabbath and WASN'T casting out demons through Beelzebub. But the Pharisees claimed he was, because what he was doing was against their interpretation of the law (and was a direct challenge to their own authority).

Your arguments against Christmas show a similar attitude towards Christians who celebrate Christmas — accusing them of going against Biblical commands and participating in something pagan and materialistic and outright Satanic. I would guess that for most Christians, there's nothing further from their hearts and minds when they celebrate the birth of our Lord — not that I can see into their hearts and minds any more than you can. Again, you can decide what Christmas means to you and choose not to celebrate it accordingly, but you can't dictate what it means to other Christians who do celebrate it as a holy and blessed time that has nothing to do with paganism or Satan or frenzied shopping sprees. Deciding for yourself not to celebrate certain holidays is fine, but using the Bible in a Pharisaical manner to "prove" that Christians who do celebrate those holidays are offending God... well, it's not likely to convince them and it's even less likely to encourage non-believers to see Christianity as something attractive. But that's your choice.

May God bless you too.

So you believe that possessing pagan elements in our worship of the Lord is not a problem? I need Scriptural references please. Otherwise, you are falsely accusing me in regards to the Pharisees actions. Also, do you believe that Black Friday would still happen if Christmas wasn't around? I think if the holiday didn't exist, nobody would be forced to beat each other up on the holidays if the focus of the holiday was not focused so heavily on buying tons of gifts for people. Furthermore, do you approve of parents lying to their children about Santa? This is something that you cannot change about the holiday. It is a part of Christmas. People are going to beat each other up, and lie on Christmas and focus on materialism by the exchange of goods. You have to prove with Scripture that these things are not wrong.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

prodromos said:
The secular version does not celebrate the Nativity of our Lord. We in the Church celebrate the Nativity of our Lord, and His presentation at the temple, and His Baptism, and His healing of the paralytic/blind/lepers/demon possessed/etc. and His raising of the dead, and His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, and His transfiguration, and His crucifixion, and His resurrection, and His ascension, and the decent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, and, and, and,...

I wouldn't be against the "Nativity of the Lord" (even though it is not in Scripture). I am Sola Scriptura and I would not do that personally because I want to only follow my orders as they are written in His Word, but I also would not see a major problem in the "Nativity of the Lord" because we can do good to honor our Lord on any day of the week. So I don't have a major issue with the "Nativity of the Lord" (even though I am not in 100% on board with it). It is Christmas (the secular worldly holiday) that I have an issue with (or that I find to be unbiblical).

Are you against the secular version of Christmas?
If so, then why attack me and or my argument against it?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 6, 2018

Daniel Marsh said:
All but one of them is known to be outdated and Anti-Christian. The only Religious one is known to be Anti-Catholic. You may want to use the Catholic one online. I do not know if there is an Orthodox one for contrast and comparing. Also, Encyclopedias is not even good introduction to religious and some philosophy groups.

"Christmas (December 25th) is a feast of Western Christian origin. In Constantinople it appears to have been introduced in 379 or 380. From a sermon of St. John Chrysostom, at the time a renowned ascetic and preacher in his native Antioch, it appears that the feast was first celebrated there on 25 December 386. "Calculating Christmas

Nativity - OrthodoxWiki
https://www.google.com/search?ei=Gj...0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j33i299.M55pAJkj5lw

What version of Christmas are you defending?
The Orthodox version (called: the "Nativity of the Lord") or the secular version that everyone celebrates?

prodromos · Oct 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Are you against the secular version of Christmas?
If so, then why attack me and or my argument against it?

I'm against you falsely conflating the religious celebration with the secular.

Kaon · Oct 6, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Right where he said his disciple to write a Bible and follow only what that Bible said.

Show it.

Kaon · Oct 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
What version of Christmas are you defending?
The Orthodox version (called: the "Nativity of the Lord") or the secular version that everyone celebrates?

No one has stated one place where Christmas was listed by the Word of God Himself as a holy day for us to celebrate. So far, I have seen deflection in the form of confounding what has been said, or accusing.

prodromos · Oct 6, 2018

Kaon said:
No one has stated one place where Christmas was listed by the Word of God Himself as a holy day for us to celebrate.

Probably because no one ever claimed that was the case

Eloy Craft · Oct 6, 2018

The bible reveals the day the long awaited seed of the Woman was born. The Virgin gave birth to the One who would conquer death and rescue human life from the Evil one. She prepared a Body for God.

Can you tell me that the day God was born isn't a holy day? A day to be remembered?

Not David · Oct 6, 2018

Kaon said:
No one has stated one place where Christmas was listed by the Word of God Himself as a holy day for us to celebrate. So far, I have seen deflection in the form of confounding what has been said, or accusing.

Which shows a double standard because Jesus never told his disciples to write a Bible and only follow it.

Kaon · Oct 6, 2018

prodromos said:
Probably because no one ever claimed that was the case

Well, then why would you risk the harm of celebrating a non-sanctioned day so close to paganism? That is creating a stumbling block. This is especially true when the Word of God Himself never gave the specifics the world takes as truth (i.e. Dec 25 is the birth date.)

Moreover, how can you justify the sanctity of Christmas when the Word of God Himself never mentioned it to His disciples, or in general? In other words, Christmas needs to be so founded by the Word of God for most of you to justify calling us God haters, and insinuating our purpose and intent is to destroy a sacred holy day based on our ignorance and misinformation.

If you can't even show me where the Most High God mentions His Own birthday, how do you know what day He was born on? How can you accuse if you are basing your traditions on estimations? The Word of God is solid; Passover is a specific day with specific details on how to follow it, for example.

Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

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