Why I follow Paul !

[dan p]

Hi to all and there are many believers that follow someone , like Peter , the Law , and who only follow the lowly Jesus and his earthly ministry and are the one who love His word in a RED LETTER EDITION .

There will always be those that said we " worship " and I have yet to see or meet anyone who says that PHRASE as to denigrate those that follow Paul .

As 2 Cor 13:3 , these they are always trying to seek a proof of Christ speaking in me for this Dispensation of Grace .

In 1 Cor 14:37 , If any man think himself to be a prophet , or SPIRITUAL , let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto to you are the commandments of God .

The verb tense for WREST /STREBLOO is in the present tense and that means believers are still twisting the word today and it is also in the Indicative Mood and that means it is a FACT .

In 2 Peter 3:15 and 16 , Peter says this about Paul , that Paul has written unto you , which to means Hebrews !

Then in verse 16 , Peter says ;
#1 , What Paul writes are HARD to understand .
#2 , The will never understand Paul , because they are UNLEARNED of Pauline truth !
#3 , And beause they are unlearned are UNSTABLE !

#4 , And TWIST or WREST the other scriptures unto their own destruction .


In 1 Cor 11:1 , BE ye followers / IMITATORS of me , even as I also am of Christ .

The Greek word for BE /GINOMAL is in the Greek Present Tense and that means today , and in the passive or middle voice and in the Imperative mood , which means that all are commanded to follow Paul and the accusation that we FOLLOW Paul is a RED HERRING .

By the , in 1 Cor 4:16 is also in the Imperative Mood of Command by the Holy Spirit , dan p

Another verse is in 1 Cor 4:16 , " wherefore I beseech you , be ye followers of me , how much clearer can it be .

Bit in 2 Peter 3:16 , says ;

#1 , What Paul writes are HARD to be understood !
#2 , Those who do not follow Paul are UNLEARNED !
#3 , And are UNSTABLE !
#4 , And n Twist or Wrest the word to their own destruction !

 

[Big Drew]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7513649/

 

[dan p]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7513649/

Hi BD , and I would rather read what you think !! spell it out !

 

[Big Drew]

Hi BD , and I would rather read what you think !! spell it out !

What I think? Okay...

I think this particular form of dispensationalism is a horrible theology...if it can even be called that...more appropriately it should be called Paulology...to me it seems no different than what the hyperdispys claim the Catholics do with placing Peter on a pedestal...

And what seems so sad to me is that your beloved Apostle even spoke out against this...

1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The claim is made that this is "rightly dividing," but IMO it's been divided so much that it's impossible to even see the truth.

Peter said Paul's writings are hard to understand...and, well, that's apparent when you get views like this.

Sorry for being so blunt, but, you asked.

 

[glen55]

What I think? Okay...

I think this particular form of dispensationalism is a horrible theology...if it can even be called that...more appropriately it should be called Paulology...to me it seems no different than what the hyperdispys claim the Catholics do with placing Peter on a pedestal...

And what seems so sad to me is that your beloved Apostle even spoke out against this...

1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The claim is made that this is "rightly dividing," but IMO it's been divided so much that it's impossible to even see the truth.

Peter said Paul's writings are hard to understand...and, well, that's apparent when you get views like this.

Sorry for being so blunt, but, you asked.

I do think there is merit in seeing that Paul was called for a specific ministery concerning the promise without the works of the Mosaic law, which was still being followed under the letter till Acts 10 and Peters vision.
This was the fight between Paul and the Judaizers that were zealous of the law Acts 21:20, and still held spiritual merit in rituals Acts 21:23, shows this. This chapter also shows there was two sets of teachings one for the circumcision, and one for the uncircumcision according to James, "who expected the circumcision to walk orderly in the law" Acts 21:24, the Gentiles weren't except what had been wrote to them from the previous council Acts 21:25, and what James taught was the reason Peter and Barnabas withdrew from the gentiles when those from James showed up in Galatians 2:12.

Plus in 1Peter we also read terms like royal preisthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, [Exodus 19:6] that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. [see Matthew 4:13-16] and think about the context of who Jesus said He was sent to first [Matthew 15:24] the next part also shows the who in Peters letter, Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Kinda hard not to see the connection to the house of Israel, Hosea 1:6.

One does need to discern who is teaching what to who.

Grace, Glen.

 

[dan p]

What I think? Okay...

I think this particular form of dispensationalism is a horrible theology...if it can even be called that...more appropriately it should be called Paulology...to me it seems no different than what the hyperdispys claim the Catholics do with placing Peter on a pedestal...

And what seems so sad to me is that your beloved Apostle even spoke out against this...

1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The claim is made that this is "rightly dividing," but IMO it's been divided so much that it's impossible to even see the truth.

Peter said Paul's writings are hard to understand...and, well, that's apparent when you get views like this.

Sorry for being so blunt, but, you asked.

Hi Bro , and why not defend 1 Cor 1:12-17 ??

Paul is a Dispensationalist and most believers who do not understand Paul are Unlearned , Unstable and Twist and say they love Grace but detest Paul .

 

[Big Drew]

Defend what? Seems pretty straight and to the point, IMO.

Of course, I'm unlearned and unstable, so what the heck do I know?

 

[dan p]

Defend what? Seems pretty straight and to the point, IMO.

Of course, I'm unlearned and unstable, so what the heck do I know?

Hi BD , straight to the point , come on now , you will not repond to 1 Cor 1:12 or maybe you would like v17 , but you do not have to respond , but you did push my button , dan p

 

[Big Drew]

Dan, I'm not sure what it is you're wanting...it's obvious what Paul is writing about here...

1Co 1:11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

There were some of the folks in Corinth that were going around saying "Paul's our man, we only believe what Paul teaches," while others were saying, "We only do what Peter teaches," etc...Paul was telling them that there is no division...Christ is who died for us, we are Baptized in the name of Christ...not Paul, or Apollos...and I know you probably believe that verse 17 is saying that baptism is unneeded, but that's not within the context...what Paul is saying there is that he's glad he didn't baptize these folks so they could make the claim that they were baptized in his name...and his job was to spread the gospel...any other born again believer could handle the baptism aspect of it...to put it in somewhat modern terms, I think of what Paul was doing as like a Billy Graham crusade...many folks came to Christ after hearing Rev. Graham preach the gospel...but he didn't have time to baptize all of them...they got plugged into local churches and were baptized there...with Corinth, the elders would have done the baptizing...or perhaps those who were traveling with Paul. And, as Paul stated...he did baptize a few in Corinth, so would you say that Paul is contradicting himself just a few verses after mentioning that? I know I wouldn't...as I don't believe there are any contradictions in the word of God.

 

[dan p]

Hi BD , so as Jesus never baptized , but Jesus disciples did !

Then that is what Paul's associates did , the Baptizing ?

Where is a verse that shows , that , that is what happened ??

YOu believe that Paul Baptized ? yes or no ?

Do you have a verse where Paul Baptized ??

 

[dan p]

What I think? Okay...
"
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Hi BD , and the verb " DIVIDED/MERIZO " is in the Perfect Tense , Passive voice and indicative mood of FACT .

The perfect tense signifies that from that point in the Past in verse 13 , to the Present , Christ is divided and the proof , is just look at all the different Assemblies , today that do not follow Paul and are more concern with the earthly Jesus . dan p

 

[Big Drew]

Hi BD , so as Jesus never baptized , but Jesus disciples did !

Then that is what Paul's associates did , the Baptizing ?

Where is a verse that shows , that , that is what happened ??

YOu believe that Paul Baptized ? yes or no ?

Do you have a verse where Paul Baptized ??

Umm...as already quoted...

1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)

So, I'm gonna have to go with YES, Paul did baptize people...and there's your verse that proves it...........

 

[Big Drew]

What I think? Okay...
"
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Hi BD , and the verb " DIVIDED/MERIZO " is in the Perfect Tense , Passive voice and indicative mood of FACT .

The perfect tense signifies that from that point in the Past in verse 13 , to the Present , Christ is divided and the proof , is just look at all the different Assemblies , today that do not follow Paul and are more concern with the earthly Jesus . dan p

What we're divided on is trivial...we're all members of the same Body.

 

[crossnote]

Was not Paul ordained by God to be an apostle to the Gentiles and by doing so revealing the mystery held at bay since the foundation of creation i.e. the Church comprised of both Jew and Gentile?

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
(Eph 3:1-7)

If the above is true, then of course (as members of the Church- His Body) we are going to pay special heed to what the Spirit says through Paul.

 

[Big Drew]

Was not Paul ordained by God to be an apostle to the Gentiles and by doing so revealing the mystery held at bay since the foundation of creation i.e. the Church comprised of both Jew and Gentile?

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
(Eph 3:1-7)

If the above is true, then of course (as members of the Church- His Body) we are going to pay special heed to what the Spirit says through Paul.

Sure we should...just as we should pay attention to what the other apostles and prophets had to say...

Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Nothing was revealed to Paul that wasn't revealed to Peter, James, John, etc...the same gospel of Christ for all...

 

[dan p]

Hi crossnote , right on brother , but we know that most believers are more concerned with Jesus earthly ministry, the Mosaic Law , and only one gospel , dan p

 

[dan p]

Sure we should...just as we should pay attention to what the other apostles and prophets had to say...

Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Nothing was revealed to Paul that wasn't revealed to Peter, James, John, etc...the same gospel of Christ for all...

Hi BD , and where are Peter ,James and John is verse 5 .

And Eph 3:5 is a companion verse to Col 1:26 " the mystery which has been HIDDEN from Ages and from GENERATIONS/GENEA , but NOW has been revealed to His saints .

The phrase " has been hidden " of Col 1:26 is parallel with the phrase " was not made known " of Eph 3:5 .

Paul has repeated over and over again that God's truth for today was MADE KNOWN to him . The Greek verb for " make known " is GNORIZO ,
" to make known , reveal ."

If it was revealed to Peter , James or John , WHERE DID THEY PREACH THE DISPENSATION OF THE MYSTERY , that is the a bummer for you , if you try to contradict what is written in Eph 3:5 , " which in DIFFERENT generations was NOT made known to the sons of men , as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by ( the ) Spirit .

 

[Big Drew]

Hi BD , and where are Peter ,James and John is verse 5 .

And Eph 3:5 is a companion verse to Col 1:26 " the mystery which has been HIDDEN from Ages and from GENERATIONS/GENEA , but NOW has been revealed to His saints .

The phrase " has been hidden " of Col 1:26 is parallel with the phrase " was not made known " of Eph 3:5 .

Paul has repeated over and over again that God's truth for today was MADE KNOWN to him . The Greek verb for " make known " is GNORIZO ,
" to make known , reveal ."

If it was revealed to Peter , James or John , WHERE DID THEY PREACH THE DISPENSATION OF THE MYSTERY , that is the a bummer for you , if you try to contradict what is written in Eph 3:5 , " which in DIFFERENT generations was NOT made known to the sons of men , as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by ( the ) Spirit .

I would respond to this if it made any sense...

 

[crossnote]

Sure we should...just as we should pay attention to what the other apostles and prophets had to say...

Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Nothing was revealed to Paul that wasn't revealed to Peter, James, John, etc...the same gospel of Christ for all...

The Church was not prophecied in the OT, hinted at maybe, but not to the extent that it was revealed to Paul.
The other apostles were still looking for the Kingdom and expecting Jesus to return soon to set up His kingdom. It was not until Peter's vision in Acts 10 that God began revealing to Peter to open up to the Gentiles. With Paul he was commissioned by the Lord, revealed in visions, his ministry to zero in on the Gentiles, while at the same time being warned that the Jews (for the most part) hearts would be hardened to Paul's message of reconciliation through the Cross.
(I am new at this angle but this is how I understand it thus far).

I was just thinking.
If Paul essentially had the same message as the other twelve, why did God put him into service as an apostle when he already had others to choose from? I think he had a special ministry with a message concerning a mystery kept hidden; a mystery concerning the Church the Body of Christ comprised of both believing Jew and Gentiles.

 

[Big Drew]

The Church was not prophecied in the OT, hinted at maybe, but not to the extent that it was revealed to Paul.
The other apostles were still looking for the Kingdom and expecting Jesus to return soon to set up His kingdom. It was not until Peter's vision in Acts 10 that God began revealing to Peter to open up to the Gentiles. With Paul he was commissioned by the Lord, revealed in visions, his ministry to zero in on the Gentiles, while at the same time being warned that the Jews (for the most part) hearts would be hardened to Paul's message of reconciliation through the Cross.
(I am new at this angle but this is how I understand it thus far).

I was just thinking.
If Paul essentially had the same message as the other twelve, why did God put him into service as an apostle when he already had others to choose from? I think he had a special ministry with a message concerning a mystery kept hidden; a mystery concerning the Church the Body of Christ comprised of both believing Jew and Gentiles.

Or, it could have simply been that since Paul was a Roman citizen he could go in and out of areas easier than the Twelve could.

There is no Gospel of the Kingdom and Gospel of Grace...there's only one Gospel, and that's of Christ.

When I read the epistles of James, Peter, and John I see no contradictions between what they're saying and what Paul says.

I have no issue with traditional dispensationalism....I believed in it for many years, and I have many friends and family members that believe it...I started seeing things I disagreed with though, that weren't adding up with what scripture says, which is why I don't believe it anymore...but if someone else does, that's fine with me...but this hyperdispensationalism that's being taught in this thread, and the others by the OP is disturbing. I don't even understand why hyperdispys bother having all 66 books in their Bibles...seems to me that they could save some money by just buying a book with 13. . .